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+2008 Dec 04 20:01:04  <scarabeus> http://dev.gentoo.org/~scarabeus/kde_meeting0812.txt
+2008 Dec 04 20:01:11  <scarabeus> time is here
+2008 Dec 04 20:01:13  <scarabeus> so who is around?
+2008 Dec 04 20:01:23  -*- tampakrap 
+2008 Dec 04 20:01:26  -*- bonsaikitten 
+2008 Dec 04 20:01:43  <scarabeus> !herd kde
+2008 Dec 04 20:01:44  <Willikins> (kde) caleb, carlo, cryos, deathwing00, genstef, jmbsvicetto, keytoaster, mattepiu, scarabeus, tgurr
+2008 Dec 04 20:01:54  <scarabeus> guys you should all show up :]
+2008 Dec 04 20:01:54  -*- krytzz 
+2008 Dec 04 20:02:01  <keytoaster> hi there!
+2008 Dec 04 20:02:22  -*- jmbsvicetto 
+2008 Dec 04 20:02:40  <scarabeus> krytzz, Sput: you two around?
+2008 Dec 04 20:02:42  -*- cryos|work is here
+2008 Dec 04 20:02:49  <krytzz> yes
+2008 Dec 04 20:03:20  <scarabeus> ok i think that is most we can get, any words from others, stating that they show up too?
+2008 Dec 04 20:03:35  <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: No idea
+2008 Dec 04 20:03:49  <bonsaikitten> I guess we should let their backlog do its work ;)
+2008 Dec 04 20:04:02  <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: About your agenda, we should start with a "simple" point - who is still working / willing to work with KDE 3.5
+2008 Dec 04 20:04:10  <tampakrap> me
+2008 Dec 04 20:04:15  <jmbsvicetto> bonsaikitten: That doesn't work with caleb and carlo ;)
+2008 Dec 04 20:04:28  <cryos|work> I am somewhat, but with limited time...
+2008 Dec 04 20:04:31  <bonsaikitten> as long as it is only ebuild maintenance and not C++ stabbing I'm willing to keep it alive
+2008 Dec 04 20:04:41  <bonsaikitten> but I have no interest in 3.5 anymore :)
+2008 Dec 04 20:04:48  <tampakrap> i said i still use kde3 in my main desktop and wanted to have various tests about that and check bugs of course
+2008 Dec 04 20:04:54  <tampakrap> but i was busy with the quiz
+2008 Dec 04 20:04:55  -*- cryos|work has waning interest in it...
+2008 Dec 04 20:05:18  <bonsaikitten> our users want it, so those primitives have to be kept happy ;)
+2008 Dec 04 20:05:41  <scarabeus> yes i would say it is requirement to have kde3 around until kde4.3
+2008 Dec 04 20:05:42  --> MartyMcFly (n=martin@dslb-088-064-190-153.pools.arcor-ip.net) has joined #gentoo-kde
+2008 Dec 04 20:06:00  <bonsaikitten> maybe even longer. if 3.5 is stable enough maintenance should be cheap
+2008 Dec 04 20:06:01  <krytzz> yes
+2008 Dec 04 20:06:03  <jmbsvicetto> I'm not saying we should drop 3.5, I'm asking who is willing to keep it alive ;)
+2008 Dec 04 20:06:05  <cryos|work> Quite probably, but it is essentially dead upstream.
+2008 Dec 04 20:06:07  <scarabeus> jkt|: maybe you will be interested in this too
+2008 Dec 04 20:06:20  -=- hwoarang is now known as hwo[a]rang
+2008 Dec 04 20:06:25  <cryos|work> I will do what I can to help.
+2008 Dec 04 20:06:28  <jmbsvicetto> Also, who is willing to work on the issues caused by the mixing of 3.5 with 4
+2008 Dec 04 20:06:44  <tampakrap> me :)
+2008 Dec 04 20:06:44  <cryos|work> I have noted many distros already dropping it in new releases. Just keeping unported apps around.
+2008 Dec 04 20:07:08  <scarabeus> cryos|work: people would hate us, kde4 is not yet ready, even i miss some features
+2008 Dec 04 20:07:10  <bonsaikitten> I guess all of us will be hybrid users as noone goes back to a 3.5 desktop anymore :)
+2008 Dec 04 20:07:16  <cryos|work> I will help when I can, I think I may have neglected to pick up all the pieces...
+2008 Dec 04 20:07:34  --> reavertm (n=maciek@bcv18.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) has joined #gentoo-kde
+2008 Dec 04 20:07:34  <bonsaikitten> cryos|work: life happened. don't beat yourself up for that :)
+2008 Dec 04 20:07:48  <cryos|work> scarabeus: I am not talking about dropping it, I am however pointing out the deadness of upstream in that sense and what other distros are tending to do.
+2008 Dec 04 20:08:08  <scarabeus> i understand.
+2008 Dec 04 20:08:12  <cryos|work> Thanks bonsaikitten ;-)
+2008 Dec 04 20:08:13  <reavertm> (if I'm out again it means my hardware is failing again, don't bother)
+2008 Dec 04 20:08:17  <-- duog (n=doug@78-86-178-196.zone2.bethere.co.uk) has quit (Remote closed the connection)
+2008 Dec 04 20:08:22  <cryos|work> We should keep an eye on what is happening elsewhere.
+2008 Dec 04 20:08:22  -=- Mode #gentoo-kde [+v reavertm] by scarabeus
+2008 Dec 04 20:08:35  <bonsaikitten> so we'll keep it alive, but there's a good chance we won't give it high priority
+2008 Dec 04 20:09:03  <scarabeus> agreed, on low priority i think we can handle this, and we should be closing up enhancement request for kde3
+2008 Dec 04 20:09:10  <scarabeus> since it would be just pointless work
+2008 Dec 04 20:09:24  <-- hvengel (n=hvengel@astound-66-234-194-11.ca.astound.net) has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
+2008 Dec 04 20:09:42  <bonsaikitten> mostly agree
+2008 Dec 04 20:09:53  <reavertm> kde page stated along with some kde4 release announcement: "Don't look back" :)
+2008 Dec 04 20:09:55  <tampakrap> after all kde4.2 is close and will be stable enough
+2008 Dec 04 20:10:31  <scarabeus> ok so lets mark kde3 as work for cryos and tampakrap, i think you two can talk out what is needed on that field
+2008 Dec 04 20:10:38  <scarabeus> anyone else willing to jump on kde3?
+2008 Dec 04 20:10:57  <tampakrap> i don't think we need more people
+2008 Dec 04 20:11:05  <tampakrap> let's focus on kde4 "the future"
+2008 Dec 04 20:11:09  <jmbsvicetto> cryos|work: Yes, a dead upstream (3.5) and their lack of work to keep more than one version around are the most important cause of the open bugs - imho
+2008 Dec 04 20:11:43  <-- St_MPA3b (n=quassel@gregory51.dialup.corbina.ru) has quit ("http://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.")
+2008 Dec 04 20:11:49  <cryos|work> jmbsvicetto: Certainly, and so the distros are forced to move along with them unless they have considerable resources.
+2008 Dec 04 20:11:55  --> St_MPA3b (n=quassel@gregory51.dialup.corbina.ru) has joined #gentoo-kde
+2008 Dec 04 20:12:01  <reavertm> well, upstream simply has no manpower to maintaint both
+2008 Dec 04 20:12:07  <bonsaikitten> cryos|work: never underestimate gentoo users ;)
+2008 Dec 04 20:12:07  <cryos|work> There was some talk of a distro maintained patch set but I haven't seen mention of it recently.
+2008 Dec 04 20:12:24  <scarabeus> cryos|work: ask arch linux team
+2008 Dec 04 20:12:25  <jmbsvicetto> cryos|work: For 3.5?
+2008 Dec 04 20:12:31  <scarabeus> they have probably best kde3 team around
+2008 Dec 04 20:12:33  <scarabeus> currently
+2008 Dec 04 20:12:43  <scarabeus> their kdemod is epic
+2008 Dec 04 20:13:06  <St_MPA3b> htmlhandbook provides whole help or only some additional files?
+2008 Dec 04 20:13:20  <scarabeus> St_MPA3b: whole help
+2008 Dec 04 20:13:33  <St_MPA3b> scarabeus: thanks
+2008 Dec 04 20:13:55  <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: talking about htmlhandbook, I ended up not moving it away from ebuilds and into the eclass :\
+2008 Dec 04 20:13:57  <St_MPA3b> scarabeus: and there are currently no file collisions if htmlhandbook is turned off?
+2008 Dec 04 20:15:11  <St_MPA3b> in @kde-live
+2008 Dec 04 20:15:30  <scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: well that goes for next point of meeting
+2008 Dec 04 20:15:33  <scarabeus> kde4 eclasses
+2008 Dec 04 20:15:40  <scarabeus> i heavily rewrote them
+2008 Dec 04 20:15:48  <scarabeus> applied some suggestions from jmbsvicetto
+2008 Dec 04 20:15:53  <reavertm> (again?)
+2008 Dec 04 20:15:55  --> breiti (n=breiti@p5DD69917.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #gentoo-kde
+2008 Dec 04 20:15:57  <scarabeus> any moar points to them
+2008 Dec 04 20:16:04  <St_MPA3b> when there will be commit?
+2008 Dec 04 20:16:13  <scarabeus> reavertm: they are still the same, it was not yet accepted.
+2008 Dec 04 20:16:52  <cryos|work> So what are the main changes made?
+2008 Dec 04 20:17:12  <scarabeus> mostly we allow dynamic detection for kde4
+2008 Dec 04 20:17:23  <scarabeus> so apps can work with kde4.1 and kde4.2 and live
+2008 Dec 04 20:17:25  <scarabeus> no matter what
+2008 Dec 04 20:17:32  <St_MPA3b> nice
+2008 Dec 04 20:17:32  <scarabeus> eclasses handles all deps correctly
+2008 Dec 04 20:17:40  <scarabeus> also i removed most of not required code
+2008 Dec 04 20:17:41  <cryos|work> Which one are they linking too/building against?
+2008 Dec 04 20:17:45  <jmbsvicetto> This is a bad thing(tm) in design, but I don't have a better alternative
+2008 Dec 04 20:18:21  <scarabeus> cryos|work: well now you can specify which kde it needs as minimal and then specify search order for other kde versions
+2008 Dec 04 20:18:26  <scarabeus> basicly it preffers -kdeprefix
+2008 Dec 04 20:18:34  <reavertm> (actually one guy had problems with updating from 4.1.2 to 4.1.3 with -kdeprefix using portage eclasses and kde-crazy ones didn't help
+2008 Dec 04 20:18:45  <cryos|work> If they build/link against the latest version installed, they may not link to an earlier version, if it builds against old that doesn't have new symbols it won't compile.
+2008 Dec 04 20:18:46  <reavertm> it may still need some checks
+2008 Dec 04 20:19:12  <scarabeus> cryos|work: that all can be ebuld specified
+2008 Dec 04 20:19:21  <-- mx-tvt (n=costa@175.230.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt) has quit (Remote closed the connection)
+2008 Dec 04 20:19:23  <cryos|work> That is why I have always erred on the side of saying this is possible but a support nightmare.
+2008 Dec 04 20:19:37  <scarabeus> reavertm: he had fucked up kdesvn eclasses i guess, since we used that slot loong ago
+2008 Dec 04 20:19:41  <cryos|work> If it seems to work that is great though.
+2008 Dec 04 20:19:55  <scarabeus> yeah it works for all overlay guys
+2008 Dec 04 20:20:06  <scarabeus> and also my eclass supports koffice
+2008 Dec 04 20:20:07  <cryos|work> I think in general they should build/link against oldest installed version that satisfies the deps.
+2008 Dec 04 20:20:13  <scarabeus> which i can maintain with bonsaikittens help
+2008 Dec 04 20:20:17  <scarabeus> if he is still interested
+2008 Dec 04 20:20:19  <cryos|work> If KDE devs did their job well it will link to the latest version.
+2008 Dec 04 20:20:21  <scarabeus> koffice2
+2008 Dec 04 20:20:41  <krytzz> i could help there too a little bit
+2008 Dec 04 20:20:41  <scarabeus> cryos|work: that is default behavior
+2008 Dec 04 20:20:42  <cryos|work> So if we are planning on supporting it that should be the default behaviour.
+2008 Dec 04 20:20:52  <cryos|work> That sounds good to me then.
+2008 Dec 04 20:21:00  <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: There are a few things about get_latest_kdedir. That function shouldn't have hardcoded version strings - they should instead be defined in a var like KDE_SLOTS
+2008 Dec 04 20:21:02  <scarabeus> but dev can specify other order in ebuild
+2008 Dec 04 20:21:31  <cryos|work> OK, but I would discourage them from doing that unless they have an amazing reason to do so.
+2008 Dec 04 20:21:33  <scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: well enjoy its updating :] i will be hapy to see help from others :], i have no idea how to use it best, so i did it this way
+2008 Dec 04 20:21:50  <scarabeus> cryos|work: all written in comments for those variables
+2008 Dec 04 20:21:56  <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: Yeah, I'll see what I can do about it
+2008 Dec 04 20:22:52  <cryos|work> Sounds fine, we just need to stick to some policies for in tree stuff at least.
+2008 Dec 04 20:23:08  <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus / cryos|work: Most of the issues that we're having (besides the linking to a versioned dir) is that upstream is breaking ABI continuously for KDE4, right?
+2008 Dec 04 20:23:09  <scarabeus> i use it for in tree stuff just fine
+2008 Dec 04 20:23:14  --> NSaibot (n=quassel@i3ED6C704.versanet.de) has joined #gentoo-kde
+2008 Dec 04 20:23:18  <scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: right
+2008 Dec 04 20:23:33  <-- NSaibot (n=quassel@i3ED6C704.versanet.de) has quit (Remote closed the connection)
+2008 Dec 04 20:23:46  <scarabeus> cryos|work: i will run some test tomorow and fix all remaining compatibility problems
+2008 Dec 04 20:24:10  <cryos|work> jmbsvicetto: Yeah, but they promised not to after 4.1. I guess they are failing...
+2008 Dec 04 20:24:23  --> non7top (n=non7top@77.66.156.160) has joined #gentoo-kde
+2008 Dec 04 20:24:25  <jmbsvicetto> Oh, an important point about the eclasses - are we ready to block kde4 eclasses for EAPI-0 and EAPI-1?
+2008 Dec 04 20:24:30  <cryos|work> I am talking at Camp KDE 2009 too - KDE and Gentoo.
+2008 Dec 04 20:24:43  <krytzz> cool ^^
+2008 Dec 04 20:24:47  <scarabeus> i volte for only eapi2
+2008 Dec 04 20:24:54  --> NSaibot (n=quassel@i3ED6C704.versanet.de) has joined #gentoo-kde
+2008 Dec 04 20:24:57  <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: EAPI-2 or later ;)
+2008 Dec 04 20:25:00  <scarabeus> yes
+2008 Dec 04 20:25:39  <cryos|work> Can we block change the EAPI on an existing in tree e-class? Don't we need to maintain backwards compatibility on eclasses?
+2008 Dec 04 20:26:08  <cryos|work> That is a question as I can't remember what the policy is.
+2008 Dec 04 20:26:09  <scarabeus> cryos|work: well packages will be broken if they use eapi lower than 2 and our eclass even currently
+2008 Dec 04 20:26:13  <scarabeus> so we should block it
+2008 Dec 04 20:26:24  <jmbsvicetto> That would allow us to drop the QT4_BUILT_WITH_USE_CHECK, KDE4_BUILT_WITH_USE_CHECK and friends
+2008 Dec 04 20:26:33  <-- fedux (n=fedux@host157.190-137-19.telecom.net.ar) has quit ("Saliendo")
+2008 Dec 04 20:26:57  <jmbsvicetto> cryos|work: I'll confirm it with zmedico, but iirc the eclasses are now saved to vdb
+2008 Dec 04 20:27:13  <cryos|work> I am just not certain we can do that, but I could be wrong. An eclass that used to work with a version of portage should at least work to uninstall said ebuild.
+2008 Dec 04 20:27:14  <scarabeus> and no eapi1 package currently uses our eclass
+2008 Dec 04 20:27:38  <cryos|work> If the policy has changed due to portage changes then fine, but last I checked it had not.
+2008 Dec 04 20:27:47  <jmbsvicetto> cryos|work: I'll be sure to check it
+2008 Dec 04 20:27:50  <cryos|work> You could leave empty functions there, but they had to remain there.
+2008 Dec 04 20:28:14  <cryos|work> So that it is possible to uninstall the cached ebuild that didn't cache its eclass.
+2008 Dec 04 20:28:16  -*- jmbsvicetto mumbles - versioned eclasses
+2008 Dec 04 20:28:29  -*- cryos|work thinks versioning should be used.
+2008 Dec 04 20:28:29  <jmbsvicetto> cryos|work: understood
+2008 Dec 04 20:28:37  <cryos|work> It would get rid of many of these concerns.
+2008 Dec 04 20:29:00  <scarabeus> ok this could be handled later, jmbsvicetto can i wrote you as man taking care of eapi2only?
+2008 Dec 04 20:29:03  <cryos|work> We have what we have and I didn't want changes to hose peoples systems.
+2008 Dec 04 20:29:59  <-- kaffeedoktor (n=kaffeedo@rps3741.ovh.net) has quit (Remote closed the connection)
+2008 Dec 04 20:30:24  --> kaffeedoktor (n=kaffeedo@rps3741.ovh.net) has joined #gentoo-kde
+2008 Dec 04 20:30:35  <scarabeus> ok for next issue i see is wrong SLOT for our kde4 packages in the tree
+2008 Dec 04 20:30:41  <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: sure
+2008 Dec 04 20:30:41  <scarabeus> how to deal that
+2008 Dec 04 20:30:51  <scarabeus> i did something that should work for ktorrent
+2008 Dec 04 20:30:59  <krytzz> hm ill have a look
+2008 Dec 04 20:31:01  <scarabeus> but i hope there will be better solution for the others
+2008 Dec 04 20:31:12  <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: what "wrong" slot?
+2008 Dec 04 20:31:16  <scarabeus> they use 4.1
+2008 Dec 04 20:31:21  -*- cryos|work is confused too.
+2008 Dec 04 20:31:25  <scarabeus> what used to mark kde they work
+2008 Dec 04 20:31:34  <scarabeus> but with new eclasses they should be marked as app version
+2008 Dec 04 20:31:36  <scarabeus> not slot of kde
+2008 Dec 04 20:31:53  <cryos|work> What app version?
+2008 Dec 04 20:32:00  <scarabeus> for example
+2008 Dec 04 20:32:04  <scarabeus> ktorrent has version 3
+2008 Dec 04 20:32:07  <scarabeus> and 2
+2008 Dec 04 20:32:10  <scarabeus> in the tree
+2008 Dec 04 20:32:15  <scarabeus> so 2 is slot:0
+2008 Dec 04 20:32:19  <scarabeus> and 3 is slot:3
+2008 Dec 04 20:32:25  <scarabeus> but now it was slot:4.1
+2008 Dec 04 20:32:28  <jmbsvicetto> cryos|work: I know what he means
+2008 Dec 04 20:32:34  <reavertm> 2 is for kde3?
+2008 Dec 04 20:32:39  <scarabeus> reavertm: yes
+2008 Dec 04 20:32:43  <jmbsvicetto> cryos|work: The code used to apply only for packages in kde-base, that restriction was removed
+2008 Dec 04 20:32:54  <cryos|work> Can the two actually be slotted?
+2008 Dec 04 20:33:02  <jmbsvicetto> That is another issue
+2008 Dec 04 20:33:05  <reavertm> isn't this an issue only for -kdeprefix?
+2008 Dec 04 20:33:08  <cryos|work> Is it wise to remove the restriction?
+2008 Dec 04 20:33:21  <cryos|work> Are they all going into kdeprefix now?
+2008 Dec 04 20:33:22  <scarabeus> cryos|work: yes it is working as charm :]
+2008 Dec 04 20:33:34  <jmbsvicetto> cryos|work: probably not, but it was done to enforce the use of prefix in kde-misc
+2008 Dec 04 20:33:34  <scarabeus> cryos|work: yes all packages sets themself based on kdeprefix
+2008 Dec 04 20:33:50  <reavertm> I mean, if kde3 apps are going to /usr/kde/3.5 soon, there should be no issue anymore
+2008 Dec 04 20:34:20  <jmbsvicetto> reavertm: That means we'll get with the kde3 apps the same issue we currently have with kde4 apps - they stop working after you bump kde version
+2008 Dec 04 20:34:23  <cryos|work> What about with -kdeprefix? They are still good I assume?
+2008 Dec 04 20:34:40  <jmbsvicetto> The slot is changed, but the install location is still /usr
+2008 Dec 04 20:35:01  <reavertm> well, kde3 will be no longer revbumped I'm afraid
+2008 Dec 04 20:35:02  <cryos|work> So they do the funky blocker that allows simulataneous files that collide,
+2008 Dec 04 20:35:15  <jmbsvicetto> cryos|work: yes - that needs to be fixed
+2008 Dec 04 20:35:22  <krytzz> jmbsvicetto hm i thought every future version of ktorrent for example it stays in the 3 slot right?
+2008 Dec 04 20:35:33  <scarabeus> cryos|work: i will give you my list of thoughts for kde3
+2008 Dec 04 20:35:38  <krytzz> and with the other extragear apps too
+2008 Dec 04 20:35:57  <scarabeus> cryos|work: http://dev.gentoo.org/~scarabeus/kde3-misc_packages.txt
+2008 Dec 04 20:36:06  <jmbsvicetto> with scarabeus update yes. It was going to be 4.X without it
+2008 Dec 04 20:36:07  <scarabeus> krytzz: yep
+2008 Dec 04 20:36:12  <cryos|work> If you are installing the app into the kdeprefix then it makes sense for it to share the slot of the prefix dir it goes into.
+2008 Dec 04 20:36:28  <-- deathwing00 (n=deathwin@gentoo/developer/Deathwing00) has quit ("Leaving.")
+2008 Dec 04 20:36:32  <scarabeus> cryos|work: well it can go to -kdeprefix too
+2008 Dec 04 20:36:35  <jmbsvicetto> cryos|work: That was my thought, but now I have my doubts
+2008 Dec 04 20:36:51  <scarabeus> and you cant make dynamic slot
+2008 Dec 04 20:37:03  <jmbsvicetto> cryos|work: amarok stopped working here with 4.1.80 because it was installed with 4.1.3, even though I still have 4.1.3 around
+2008 Dec 04 20:37:07  <scarabeus> sice ktorrent-3.1 now can go intoo 4.1 4.2 and live dirs
+2008 Dec 04 20:37:20  <cryos|work> That is why I have always had my doubts about slotting apps not released with the main KDE modules, you have to make artificial bumps I guess to other packages?
+2008 Dec 04 20:37:40  <cryos|work> How does ktorrent decide which prefix to install to?
+2008 Dec 04 20:37:40  <jmbsvicetto> cryos|work: at this point I really don't know what to do
+2008 Dec 04 20:38:05  <krytzz> :(
+2008 Dec 04 20:38:07  <cryos|work> This scheme sounds really messy, but I haven't been using it and so don't know what to say.
+2008 Dec 04 20:38:16  <jmbsvicetto> cryos|work: One idea that crossed my mind was to install these apps into /usr/kde/apps/${PN}/${PV}
+2008 Dec 04 20:38:24  <reavertm> the easiest would be to allow only one KDE4 installed...
+2008 Dec 04 20:38:41  -*- cryos|work kinda suggested that...
+2008 Dec 04 20:38:48  <jmbsvicetto> but scarabeus tried doing that and couldn't get it working with symlinks
+2008 Dec 04 20:38:58  <scarabeus> yeah i failed there too much
+2008 Dec 04 20:39:03  <scarabeus> it was not working for me
+2008 Dec 04 20:39:10  <cryos|work> Having so many options can be extremely tough to support.
+2008 Dec 04 20:39:13  <scarabeus> feel free to do it again for yourself
+2008 Dec 04 20:39:21  <scarabeus> cryos|work: i know :(
+2008 Dec 04 20:40:06  <cryos|work> That is why many distros choose not to do this, and it has bitten us many times in the past. 3.5 is simpler now due to no more bumps.
+2008 Dec 04 20:40:11  <jmbsvicetto> cryos|work: This is another case were the real solution would be for upstream to think about this and provide a solution for having multiple versions in the same prefix
+2008 Dec 04 20:40:36  <scarabeus> we should try to push versioning on upstream
+2008 Dec 04 20:40:40  <scarabeus> that is not bad idea
+2008 Dec 04 20:40:41  <cryos|work> I agree with you entirely
+2008 Dec 04 20:40:55  <krytzz> has anyone asked for this already?
+2008 Dec 04 20:41:07  <jmbsvicetto> cryos|work: You've talked before with upstream about this, haven't you?
+2008 Dec 04 20:41:12  <cryos|work> I do think having multiple minor versions available to people who do not really know what they are doing is possibly a recipe for failure...
+2008 Dec 04 20:41:28  <cryos|work> jmbsvicetto: Yes, and I will probably talk about it again at Camp KDE in January.
+2008 Dec 04 20:41:48  <cryos|work> Many other distro developers also very much wanted this, and to a degree it works.
+2008 Dec 04 20:41:56  <jmbsvicetto> Didn't you have a presentation you did about this issue?
+2008 Dec 04 20:41:57  <cryos|work> Not to the degree Gentoo would like though.
+2008 Dec 04 20:42:08  <cryos|work> Yes - it is on my blog somewhere.
+2008 Dec 04 20:42:22  <jmbsvicetto> That should be an interesting reading for people in the team
+2008 Dec 04 20:42:49  <-- MartyMcFly (n=martin@dslb-088-064-190-153.pools.arcor-ip.net) has quit (Remote closed the connection)
+2008 Dec 04 20:43:03  <scarabeus> yeah i would like to see it :]
+2008 Dec 04 20:43:23  <krytzz> hm but with -kdeprefix there is no problem then... if the ABI is stable
+2008 Dec 04 20:43:38  <cryos|work> http://blog.cryos.net/archives/146-Gentoo-KDE-Talk-at-aKademy.html
+2008 Dec 04 20:44:58  <scarabeus> ok next point is more nice and all developers are needed: we need some lead, so people can oficialy find one, /me is proposing jmbsvicetto O:P (meantime looking on presentation on second monitor)
+2008 Dec 04 20:45:00  <cryos|work> I will be preparing half of the talk for the KDE and distros talk in January - so let me know if there are things you would like to be raised.
+2008 Dec 04 20:45:46  -*- cryos|work never really saw the need for the hierarchy in small herds, but whatever makes you happy.
+2008 Dec 04 20:46:23  --> Scorcere1 (n=Scorek@77-87-120-128.rev.masterkom.pl) has joined #gentoo-kde
+2008 Dec 04 20:46:28  <cryos|work> The KDE herd didn't have a lead for years and flourished, then dwindled... It is all about building a friendly community (lead or no).
+2008 Dec 04 20:46:58  <jmbsvicetto> I agree with cryos|work about having a friendly community
+2008 Dec 04 20:47:00  <krytzz> i have nothing against it :p
+2008 Dec 04 20:47:05  <scarabeus> :D
+2008 Dec 04 20:47:31  <jmbsvicetto> Oh and I'm not that eager to get the "lead" hat :P
+2008 Dec 04 20:47:32  <scarabeus> i dont mind how this will evolve so i leave this one definetly up to all
+2008 Dec 04 20:47:44  <scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: yeah i am pretty sure of this :D
+2008 Dec 04 20:47:54  <scarabeus> noone wants to be lead i would say
+2008 Dec 04 20:47:56  <tampakrap> i think we should have a leader just as the other herds do
+2008 Dec 04 20:48:05  <tampakrap> not because we need someone to decide
+2008 Dec 04 20:48:16  <jmbsvicetto> A quick note - team and not herd :P
+2008 Dec 04 20:48:27  <jmbsvicetto> We're talking about the people and not about the packages ;)
+2008 Dec 04 20:48:41  <tilya> i will be the queen ;)
+2008 Dec 04 20:48:41  <scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: herd is missused for this for so long...
+2008 Dec 04 20:48:44  --> dagger (n=dagger@piasek.co.uk) has joined #gentoo-kde
+2008 Dec 04 20:49:06  <scarabeus> i think word herd needs redefinition but it is not on todays topic
+2008 Dec 04 20:49:12  -*- cryos|work never got why people were so picky about the words used, is it really a herd of packages? :D
+2008 Dec 04 20:49:34  <krytzz> a bunch of packages
+2008 Dec 04 20:49:35  <scarabeus> ok so no lead for now, when times change jmbsvicetto is first on the row :P
+2008 Dec 04 20:49:41  <krytzz> gentoo kde-bunch-of-people
+2008 Dec 04 20:49:56  <cryos|work> It is work time for me over here, I could do with getting stuff done soon. So I may leave in 5-10 mins.
+2008 Dec 04 20:49:59  <jmbsvicetto> moving on to other not so pleasant topic, I think we need to look at the team members again - afaik, we have people listed in the kde page that haven't done anything kde related for many, many months
+2008 Dec 04 20:50:06  <-- comawhite (n=comawhit@unaffiliated/comawhite) has quit ("Leaving")
+2008 Dec 04 20:50:26  --> tgurr (n=tgurr@gentoo/developer/tgurr) has joined #gentoo-kde
+2008 Dec 04 20:50:26  -=- Mode #gentoo-kde [+o tgurr] by ChanServ
+2008 Dec 04 20:50:36  <jmbsvicetto> Hi tgurr 
+2008 Dec 04 20:50:40  <scarabeus> agreed, we should clean it up, ask everyone if they are willing to do something and so on (does not count for people that are mentioned away)
+2008 Dec 04 20:50:46  <tgurr> jmbsvicetto: hi
+2008 Dec 04 20:50:58  <-- erulabs (n=seandon@net-cf9a4013.noc.impulse.net) has quit ("Leaving.")
+2008 Dec 04 20:51:05  <-- JaMa (n=JaMa@chaos.mk.cvut.cz) has quit (Remote closed the connection)
+2008 Dec 04 20:51:32  <jmbsvicetto> Getting to the same old same, it would help if all the members would be willing to join irc, but I don't have any illusions about getting some people in here
+2008 Dec 04 20:51:50  <scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: are you willing to mail them
+2008 Dec 04 20:52:06  <jmbsvicetto> About being team members, sure?
+2008 Dec 04 20:52:11  <scarabeus> ok
+2008 Dec 04 20:52:16  <scarabeus> i am writing up notes
+2008 Dec 04 20:52:20  <scarabeus> so we have them after end
+2008 Dec 04 20:52:21  <scarabeus> :]
+2008 Dec 04 20:52:38  <scarabeus> about members
+2008 Dec 04 20:52:42  <scarabeus> we have problem in qt herd
+2008 Dec 04 20:52:46  <scarabeus> it is just yngwin 
+2008 Dec 04 20:53:00  <scarabeus> how to get some qt devepoer :]
+2008 Dec 04 20:53:05  <jmbsvicetto> I can even do something better, send a mail to the kde alias and ask everyone for a little introspection and to let us know if they're still part of the team and or want to be part of the team ;)
+2008 Dec 04 20:53:20  <scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: that i leave up to you :]
+2008 Dec 04 20:53:22  <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: I thought carlo and caleb where still in the team
+2008 Dec 04 20:53:39  <yngwin> they are but they are inactive and non-responsive
+2008 Dec 04 20:53:40  <scarabeus> did you hear/see some commits from them in last month/2
+2008 Dec 04 20:53:41  <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: with the obvious reservations about the above point
+2008 Dec 04 20:53:56  <jmbsvicetto> yngwin: ok, just wanted to confirm
+2008 Dec 04 20:54:04  <scarabeus> reavertm: maybe you might be interested
+2008 Dec 04 20:54:11  <reavertm> well, no major qt release recently so they may just wait for 4.5
+2008 Dec 04 20:54:21  <jmbsvicetto> yngwin: I'll talk to you about qt
+2008 Dec 04 20:54:22  <reavertm> in qt maintenance a bit?
+2008 Dec 04 20:54:28  <scarabeus> and that reminds me, yngwin should get commit acces to kde-crazy
+2008 Dec 04 20:54:32  <scarabeus> reavertm: yes
+2008 Dec 04 20:54:57  <jmbsvicetto> yngwin: do you have access to kde-testing? If not, you should also have it
+2008 Dec 04 20:54:58  <krytzz> does bonsaikitten have access? :p
+2008 Dec 04 20:55:11  <yngwin> jmbsvicetto: i dont
+2008 Dec 04 20:55:16  <scarabeus> krytzz: silence there! ;D
+2008 Dec 04 20:55:21  <yngwin> unless i do but dont know it 
+2008 Dec 04 20:55:33  <reavertm> hmm, well I can try by forget about Qt from Trolltech svn fro bow - they shit svn only as daily snapshots via rsync
+2008 Dec 04 20:55:37  <jmbsvicetto> bonsaikitten: I forgot to tell you, but robbat2 replied to me earlier saying you should have access now
+2008 Dec 04 20:55:46  <bonsaikitten> jmbsvicetto: ok, let me try :)
+2008 Dec 04 20:55:57  <reavertm> for now^^
+2008 Dec 04 20:55:58  <bonsaikitten> also, phonecall, I kinda missed the last half hour or so
+2008 Dec 04 20:56:01  <jmbsvicetto> ok, my purpose with the kde-* overlays was for everyone on the team to have access to them
+2008 Dec 04 20:56:10  <scarabeus> yeah agreed
+2008 Dec 04 20:56:36  <jmbsvicetto> I initially asked jokey to grant access to everyone at the time in the team. I haven't followed it through, so I'll talk to robbat2 again asking for an update about the current status
+2008 Dec 04 20:56:52  <scarabeus> and i took the liberty and added yngwin to team list on kde page, since it is project page for qt and kde, not only kde, i think i forget to mention that before for that i am ashamed
+2008 Dec 04 20:57:05  <yngwin> ok tnx
+2008 Dec 04 20:57:18  <yngwin> maybe i should get op status here then as well
+2008 Dec 04 20:57:18  <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: Yes, you're right
+2008 Dec 04 20:57:22  <jmbsvicetto> sure
+2008 Dec 04 20:57:30  <jmbsvicetto> keytoaster: I think it has to be you doing it
+2008 Dec 04 20:57:45  <jmbsvicetto> keytoaster: iirc, we transfered +F to you
+2008 Dec 04 20:58:57  <bonsaikitten> oooh. can has access :D
+2008 Dec 04 20:59:01  <jmbsvicetto> yngwin: seems I was able to grant it to you
+2008 Dec 04 20:59:06  <bonsaikitten> DrEeevil: you fail.
+2008 Dec 04 20:59:08  <-- NSaibot (n=quassel@i3ED6C704.versanet.de) has quit (Remote closed the connection)
+2008 Dec 04 20:59:12  <jmbsvicetto> bonsaikitten: :)
+2008 Dec 04 20:59:32  <scarabeus> ok one more infra thing
+2008 Dec 04 20:59:36  -=- Mode #gentoo-kde [+o yngwin] by jmbsvicetto
+2008 Dec 04 20:59:44  <scarabeus> tampakrap would need normal mentor if he wants to became full dev
+2008 Dec 04 20:59:51  <scarabeus> i am willing to help him with the quiz
+2008 Dec 04 20:59:57  <scarabeus> but someone must oversee
+2008 Dec 04 20:59:59  <scarabeus> who can do that
+2008 Dec 04 21:00:11  <bonsaikitten> I'm too young for that I think
+2008 Dec 04 21:00:14  <scarabeus> end-quiz we are speaking about
+2008 Dec 04 21:00:15  <jmbsvicetto> I'm also willing to help, but I still don't have the 6 months, so I can't mentor
+2008 Dec 04 21:00:16  --> genady12 (n=genady12@87.69.85.204) has joined #gentoo-kde
+2008 Dec 04 21:00:17  <tampakrap> first of all is everyone ok with that?
+2008 Dec 04 21:00:19  <bonsaikitten> my quantum status is confusing
+2008 Dec 04 21:00:31  -*- bonsaikitten is 2 years on, 2 years off ...
+2008 Dec 04 21:00:42  <jmbsvicetto> bonsaikitten: You're *chaotic* ;)
+2008 Dec 04 21:00:44  <scarabeus> bonsaikitten: ;] you are cheating :D
+2008 Dec 04 21:00:47  <krytzz> i am
+2008 Dec 04 21:00:55  <bonsaikitten> so is that 2 years or 2 months now? :)
+2008 Dec 04 21:00:57  --> oc2k1 (n=oc2k1@p5B104618.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #gentoo-kde
+2008 Dec 04 21:01:16  <jmbsvicetto> bonsaikitten: we need to ask Betelgeuse
+2008 Dec 04 21:01:22  <bonsaikitten> :)
+2008 Dec 04 21:01:39  <bonsaikitten> I think it is better if I stay out of it for a while
+2008 Dec 04 21:01:39  <krytzz> perhaps jokey could do it?
+2008 Dec 04 21:01:54  <jmbsvicetto> krytzz: jokey is away
+2008 Dec 04 21:01:56  <yngwin> i thought jokey was caught up in real life
+2008 Dec 04 21:01:57  <scarabeus> jokay is away
+2008 Dec 04 21:02:01  <krytzz> ok
+2008 Dec 04 21:02:06  <scarabeus> yngwin: you cant do it?
+2008 Dec 04 21:02:19  <yngwin> i can
+2008 Dec 04 21:02:29  <yngwin> although i dont feel guru enough
+2008 Dec 04 21:02:53  <scarabeus> :]
+2008 Dec 04 21:03:07  <bonsaikitten> yngwin: you are guru enough!
+2008 Dec 04 21:03:14  <scarabeus> dont worry, from mine humble PoV you are guru enought
+2008 Dec 04 21:03:16  <yngwin> well, if you say so :)
+2008 Dec 04 21:03:27  <jmbsvicetto> :)
+2008 Dec 04 21:03:36  <tampakrap> thanks :)
+2008 Dec 04 21:03:52  <yngwin> is there a bug for tampakrap's recruitment?
+2008 Dec 04 21:04:01  <tampakrap> no
+2008 Dec 04 21:04:02  <keytoaster> keytoaster: yes you did
+2008 Dec 04 21:04:06  <keytoaster> err
+2008 Dec 04 21:04:08  <-- Scorcerer (n=Scorek@77-87-120-128.rev.masterkom.pl) has quit (Connection timed out)
+2008 Dec 04 21:04:08  -=- Scorcere1 is now known as Scorcerer
+2008 Dec 04 21:04:08  <keytoaster> jmbsvicetto: yes you did
+2008 Dec 04 21:04:21  <scarabeus> yngwin: nope i can create one, i made him HT yesterday
+2008 Dec 04 21:04:27  <yngwin> okay
+2008 Dec 04 21:04:42  <jmbsvicetto> I let it pass, but since scarabeus mentioned the project page, we both applied some changes to the page to integrate KDE4 as a regular release and to update the status of the overlays
+2008 Dec 04 21:04:58  <jmbsvicetto> Don't know if everyone has checked it and whether there's any objection to it
+2008 Dec 04 21:05:03  <yngwin> scarabeus: then i'll second on that, and then we can see what betelgeuse says
+2008 Dec 04 21:05:09  <-- scratch[x] (n=scratch@83.239.148.148) has quit (No route to host)
+2008 Dec 04 21:05:14  <yngwin> tampakrap: kaloriziko ;)
+2008 Dec 04 21:05:23  <tampakrap> wtf?
+2008 Dec 04 21:05:25  <scarabeus> we can do this stuff after meeting, great :]
+2008 Dec 04 21:05:43  <scarabeus> ok last two things per my list
+2008 Dec 04 21:05:46  <scarabeus> first is kde4.2
+2008 Dec 04 21:05:50  <scarabeus> so what shape is it in
+2008 Dec 04 21:05:56  <scarabeus> it is just statusreport for it
+2008 Dec 04 21:06:00  <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: Good and BAD!!!
+2008 Dec 04 21:06:01  <scarabeus> so speak up kde-crazy people
+2008 Dec 04 21:06:04  <bonsaikitten> I'll take care of them snapshots
+2008 Dec 04 21:06:09  <reavertm> well, it works :)
+2008 Dec 04 21:06:15  <tampakrap> i'll also give priority to snapshots
+2008 Dec 04 21:06:21  <krytzz> plasma crashes often :p
+2008 Dec 04 21:06:22  <yngwin> kde 4.2? its crap. it friggin' needs mysql
+2008 Dec 04 21:06:28  <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: my keyboard layout is still messed up - but nepomuk and plasma have a better look ;)
+2008 Dec 04 21:06:36  <bonsaikitten> it works quite well for me
+2008 Dec 04 21:06:41  <krytzz> also for me nepomuk is strange
+2008 Dec 04 21:06:46  <bonsaikitten> had a few compile failures, but nothing unexpected
+2008 Dec 04 21:06:54  <reavertm> I guess trunk is way better than snapshots, but... regressions are quite often recently
+2008 Dec 04 21:07:01  <krytzz> but rest is ok
+2008 Dec 04 21:07:02  <reavertm> ebuild-wise - it's pretty mature
+2008 Dec 04 21:07:14  <jmbsvicetto> One important point about snapshots, they can't rely on live packages
+2008 Dec 04 21:07:24  <bonsaikitten> live is in a very good shape, snapshots have been a bit neglected
+2008 Dec 04 21:07:25  <reavertm> but upstream will mess with buildsystem for sure
+2008 Dec 04 21:07:31  -*- bonsaikitten is just digesting them
+2008 Dec 04 21:07:35  <jmbsvicetto> So we need to bug other teams or add new versions/snapshots if required to the overlay/tree
+2008 Dec 04 21:07:50  <krytzz> especially opensync :p
+2008 Dec 04 21:07:55  <scarabeus> opensync is problem
+2008 Dec 04 21:07:57  <scarabeus> currently
+2008 Dec 04 21:08:20  <scarabeus> and also networkmanager, i took liberty of speaking up with rbu on our behalf
+2008 Dec 04 21:08:31  <reavertm> opensync and it;s plugins were problematic with kde3 already
+2008 Dec 04 21:08:34  <scarabeus> and today/tomorow nm-0.7 hit the tree
+2008 Dec 04 21:08:38  <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: one solution is to try to add an update to kde-crazy overlay until it gets in the tree
+2008 Dec 04 21:08:52  <krytzz> ah nice
+2008 Dec 04 21:08:55  <reavertm> kitchensync is just lame kde3 port
+2008 Dec 04 21:08:59  <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: rbu has shown interest in getting nm working
+2008 Dec 04 21:09:03  <scarabeus> yes
+2008 Dec 04 21:09:08  <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: he might need some help with it, though
+2008 Dec 04 21:09:09  <scarabeus> he already made it work
+2008 Dec 04 21:09:17  <scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: well i will ask
+2008 Dec 04 21:09:48  <jmbsvicetto> The GNOME team was also interested in getting 0.7 in the tree, iirc
+2008 Dec 04 21:10:19  <reavertm> yeah, everyone is crazy about those networkmanager desktop applets...
+2008 Dec 04 21:10:42  <bonsaikitten> can we prevent such cross-repo dependencies in the future?
+2008 Dec 04 21:10:54  <jmbsvicetto> I would just love to get some applet that does the eap stuff for me ;)
+2008 Dec 04 21:11:05  <jmbsvicetto> bonsaikitten: what deps?
+2008 Dec 04 21:11:08  <scarabeus> there will be rule for next time all must be on portage/overlay
+2008 Dec 04 21:11:14  <bonsaikitten> like nm 
+2008 Dec 04 21:11:23  <reavertm> like kde4 requiring nm from rbu overlay
+2008 Dec 04 21:11:24  <bonsaikitten> we should have a copy in our repo if that happens
+2008 Dec 04 21:11:31  <jmbsvicetto> yeah, agreed
+2008 Dec 04 21:11:36  <krytzz> hm but this sucks somehow
+2008 Dec 04 21:11:44  <krytzz> if you have both overlays you have the ebuild 2 times
+2008 Dec 04 21:11:50  <jmbsvicetto> at least until we can get Zac to support repo deps ;)
+2008 Dec 04 21:11:50  <krytzz> and you dont know if the 2 differ or something
+2008 Dec 04 21:12:05  <scarabeus> repodeps ;]
+2008 Dec 04 21:12:10  <scarabeus> it sounds llike sam rep band
+2008 Dec 04 21:12:11  <krytzz> also its additional maintenance work
+2008 Dec 04 21:12:25  <tampakrap> talking about overlays i'd like to remind everyone that versioned misc packages go to kde-testing :)
+2008 Dec 04 21:12:35  <jmbsvicetto> krytzz: yes, we should only have them until it gets pushed into the tree
+2008 Dec 04 21:12:36  <reavertm> yeah, i just see GLEP for it being discussed, then presented, then rejected or suspended :P
+2008 Dec 04 21:12:39  <krytzz> ok tampakrap :p
+2008 Dec 04 21:13:02  <scarabeus> ok so what with opensync
+2008 Dec 04 21:13:06  <scarabeus> it is BbD
+2008 Dec 04 21:13:08  <jmbsvicetto> tampakrap: versioned "not known to be broken" misc packages ;)
+2008 Dec 04 21:13:13  <scarabeus> broken by design
+2008 Dec 04 21:13:13  <krytzz> i wouldnt mind with a central gentoo-deps overlay :p
+2008 Dec 04 21:13:30  <bonsaikitten> we call that "the main tree"
+2008 Dec 04 21:13:38  <reavertm> scarabeus you mean opensync akonadi plugin or kitchensync?
+2008 Dec 04 21:13:44  <bonsaikitten> so, how fast are we going to get 4.2 there as ~arch?
+2008 Dec 04 21:13:51  <krytzz> bonsaikitten then stab people to get things faster in there then :p
+2008 Dec 04 21:13:54  <bonsaikitten> and is kde 4.2 a stable candidate?
+2008 Dec 04 21:14:06  <jmbsvicetto> bonsaikitten: I don't think we should get 4.2 in the tree until RC
+2008 Dec 04 21:14:09  <scarabeus> yeah crappy opensync
+2008 Dec 04 21:14:16  <bonsaikitten> krytzz: I'm just cleaning up. If that's not enough go screw yourself counterclockwise ;)
+2008 Dec 04 21:14:24  <jmbsvicetto> bonsaikitten: I would also hard mask the RCs and lift the mask with 4.2
+2008 Dec 04 21:14:25  <tampakrap> i think it is time to have a stable kde4 version
+2008 Dec 04 21:14:31  <bonsaikitten> jmbsvicetto: acceptable
+2008 Dec 04 21:14:48  <reavertm> scarabeus yes, but be more specific, opensync from portage is crappy or kde opensync support?
+2008 Dec 04 21:14:49  <krytzz> i think if the 4.2 progress continues like know it should be great by 4.2.1
+2008 Dec 04 21:14:58  <scarabeus> opensync from portage
+2008 Dec 04 21:14:59  <krytzz> now
+2008 Dec 04 21:14:59  <jmbsvicetto> bonsaikitten: we might however start thinking on moving 4.2 into kde-testing
+2008 Dec 04 21:15:02  <scarabeus> opensync itself
+2008 Dec 04 21:15:09  <jmbsvicetto> bonsaikitten: at least as soon as we take care of the eclasses
+2008 Dec 04 21:15:17  <scarabeus> eclasses first! :D
+2008 Dec 04 21:15:17  <tampakrap> jmbsvicetto: +1
+2008 Dec 04 21:15:34  <jmbsvicetto> and I do think 4.2 should be a stable candidate - let's just see how it works
+2008 Dec 04 21:15:47  <jmbsvicetto> one thing we need to solve quickly is getting 3.5.10 marked stable
+2008 Dec 04 21:16:05  <scarabeus> that is already stated in the summary paper :]
+2008 Dec 04 21:16:08  <reavertm> jmbsvicetto which 4.2? you mean snapshots and revbump as 4.2 and keep them updated along with snaphots from kde-crazy?
+2008 Dec 04 21:16:10  <tampakrap> jmbsvicetto: i'll start working on kde3 right after this meeting
+2008 Dec 04 21:16:18  <reavertm> if yes, then you are crazy ;)
+2008 Dec 04 21:16:33  <tampakrap> why?
+2008 Dec 04 21:16:35  <scarabeus> nope to testing should go only snapshots marked as betaX
+2008 Dec 04 21:16:36  <jmbsvicetto> reavertm: I mean that I think 4.2 snapshots should be moved to testing
+2008 Dec 04 21:16:45  <jmbsvicetto> reavertm: after the eclasses are merged back again
+2008 Dec 04 21:16:49  <scarabeus> snapshot itself i disagree
+2008 Dec 04 21:16:57  <scarabeus> but snapshots for beta1 beta2 rcX
+2008 Dec 04 21:16:58  <scarabeus> yes
+2008 Dec 04 21:17:04  <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: yes, that's what I mean
+2008 Dec 04 21:17:10  <jmbsvicetto> should have been clearer
+2008 Dec 04 21:17:16  <reavertm> I wouldn't advise that atm - there may be many changes and syncing them between kde-crazy <-> kde-testing ...
+2008 Dec 04 21:17:17  <scarabeus> great then we agree :]
+2008 Dec 04 21:17:34  <scarabeus> reavertm: just delete it and copy from point A to point B
+2008 Dec 04 21:17:39  <jmbsvicetto> reavertm: git cherry-pick ;)
+2008 Dec 04 21:17:41  <scarabeus> it wont harm kittens TM
+2008 Dec 04 21:17:52  <scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: cherry-pick cross repos?
+2008 Dec 04 21:17:56  <jmbsvicetto> yes
+2008 Dec 04 21:17:58  <scarabeus> wow
+2008 Dec 04 21:18:00  <scarabeus> that i didnt know
+2008 Dec 04 21:18:05  <scarabeus> that is even more cooler
+2008 Dec 04 21:18:11  <reavertm> scnaphots are keep sync from live now - and I would just wait until some rc is released, and patched in kde-crazy and then quick revbup and move -> testing
+2008 Dec 04 21:18:28  <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: hmm, now you're going to force me to test it to be sure I didn't came up with that
+2008 Dec 04 21:18:36  <reavertm> well, if you volunteer to do it :)
+2008 Dec 04 21:19:14  <-- genady12 (n=genady12@87.69.85.204) has quit (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out))
+2008 Dec 04 21:19:15  <scarabeus> ok this can be suspended and handled later
+2008 Dec 04 21:19:20  <jmbsvicetto> reavertm: The idea was to try to have RCs in the tree, so we should try to get something in testing before that
+2008 Dec 04 21:19:21  <scarabeus> now more pain in the ass TM issue
+2008 Dec 04 21:19:25  <scarabeus> mysql
+2008 Dec 04 21:19:28  <scarabeus> whole kde needs it
+2008 Dec 04 21:19:33  <bonsaikitten> aarghl! :)
+2008 Dec 04 21:19:33  <scarabeus> and amarok is chapter itself
+2008 Dec 04 21:19:42  <scarabeus> what to do with it
+2008 Dec 04 21:19:43  <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: There's only one option here: work with robbat2
+2008 Dec 04 21:19:50  <krytzz> yes... we cant do anything about that :(
+2008 Dec 04 21:19:58  <scarabeus> did you see the eclass
+2008 Dec 04 21:19:58  <reavertm> yes, I agres 4.2 should be in tree asap but moving it to testing only for the sake of having it in kde-testing is bad idea imho
+2008 Dec 04 21:20:01  <krytzz> does he maintain mysql?
+2008 Dec 04 21:20:04  <scarabeus> did? did? i dont like it
+2008 Dec 04 21:20:09  <scarabeus> krytzz: yes he does
+2008 Dec 04 21:20:09  <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: I've asked him yesterday and he's still waiting for mysql upstream to reply to his request for a dynamic lib for mysql/e
+2008 Dec 04 21:20:17  <reavertm> I've already put my mysql rant in gentoo-dev :P
+2008 Dec 04 21:20:17  <krytzz> ah ok
+2008 Dec 04 21:20:31  <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: what do you mean?
+2008 Dec 04 21:21:03  <scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: too chaotical too much patches too much crazy
+2008 Dec 04 21:21:11  <scarabeus> but i dunno how is upstream cooperating
+2008 Dec 04 21:21:19  <jmbsvicetto> reavertm: The point of kde-testing is to be the bridge to the tree
+2008 Dec 04 21:21:28  <scarabeus> ok on other hand who is willing to cooperate with robbat2 on that?
+2008 Dec 04 21:21:32  <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: you mean mysql eclass?
+2008 Dec 04 21:21:37  <scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: ay sir
+2008 Dec 04 21:21:46  <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: mysql isn't that "simple"
+2008 Dec 04 21:22:05  <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: And robbat2 if surely one if not the "one" gentoo mysql yoda
+2008 Dec 04 21:22:09  <jmbsvicetto> s/if/is/
+2008 Dec 04 21:22:12  <reavertm> I've seen this eclass and it's.. well.. a bit complex as eclass for one package
+2008 Dec 04 21:22:34  <bonsaikitten> reavertm: it adds a build system to a braindead package ;)
+2008 Dec 04 21:22:39  <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: I'm willing to work with robbat2 about mysql
+2008 Dec 04 21:22:58  <reavertm> yeah, I heard....
+2008 Dec 04 21:23:09  --> genady12 (n=genady12@87.69.85.204) has joined #gentoo-kde
+2008 Dec 04 21:23:12  <scarabeus> great puting you to the txt :]
+2008 Dec 04 21:23:27  <scarabeus> ok issues from my side mentioned
+2008 Dec 04 21:23:32  <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: I'll have to check that text - it feels like I'm being "canned" ;)
+2008 Dec 04 21:23:36  <scarabeus> someone else has something that needs to be handled
+2008 Dec 04 21:23:49  <scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: dont worry i try to make it to be factical
+2008 Dec 04 21:23:58  <tampakrap> is there an open bug for 3.5.10 stabilization?
+2008 Dec 04 21:24:01  <jmbsvicetto> yes
+2008 Dec 04 21:24:08  <tampakrap> if not let's create one to sum up the issues
+2008 Dec 04 21:24:12  <tampakrap> ok then
+2008 Dec 04 21:24:15  <krytzz> yeah, about the kde-plasma category: could we do it?
+2008 Dec 04 21:24:15  <jmbsvicetto> If ctrl+f3 worked here, I could get you the number quicker ;)
+2008 Dec 04 21:24:17  <tampakrap> i'll search
+2008 Dec 04 21:24:24  <jmbsvicetto> bug kde-3.5.10
+2008 Dec 04 21:24:27  <krytzz> do you like it?
+2008 Dec 04 21:24:44  <jmbsvicetto> krytzz: I don't think we should go down that route
+2008 Dec 04 21:25:13  <scarabeus> ok what are the alternatives
+2008 Dec 04 21:25:14  <jmbsvicetto> krytzz: If we try to get kde-plasma, kde-plasmoids, ..., we're going to create resistance
+2008 Dec 04 21:25:28  <krytzz> no, only kde-plasma jmbsvicetto for everything plasma-related
+2008 Dec 04 21:25:31  <scarabeus> kde-plasma only it is going to be
+2008 Dec 04 21:25:32  <jmbsvicetto> we've lived with kde-base and kde-misc for a long, long time
+2008 Dec 04 21:25:34  <tampakrap> could we have plasmoids for more than one version? and in case of slotted kde's, could we install a plasmoid for every session?
+2008 Dec 04 21:25:59  <jmbsvicetto> how many packages are we talking and what type of packages
+2008 Dec 04 21:25:59  <scarabeus> tampakrap: nope it is same as misc packages for more kde installs
+2008 Dec 04 21:26:09  <reavertm> tampakrap they won't build that easy
+2008 Dec 04 21:26:11  <scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: plasma aplets and enginges
+2008 Dec 04 21:26:15  <krytzz> hm ok thats just personal preference how filled the categories are, but i prefer fewer packages per category
+2008 Dec 04 21:26:28  <scarabeus> currently about 150 on kde-apps/look
+2008 Dec 04 21:26:39  <scarabeus> and we can bundle them all in the end
+2008 Dec 04 21:26:54  <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: if we're talking about kde-look, perhaps we're going down the wrong path
+2008 Dec 04 21:26:58  <reavertm> categories are bad btw, some tag clouds should be introduced one day...
+2008 Dec 04 21:27:10  <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: I'm thinking if we couldn't try to do something similar to what the perl team did with cpan
+2008 Dec 04 21:27:15  --> Eythan (n=Eythan@AMontpellier-152-1-30-159.w81-251.abo.wanadoo.fr) has joined #gentoo-kde
+2008 Dec 04 21:27:16  <krytzz> reavertm one day... yes :p
+2008 Dec 04 21:27:22  <scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: what they did
+2008 Dec 04 21:27:40  <scarabeus> some perl magic i guess ;]
+2008 Dec 04 21:27:45  <jmbsvicetto> yup ;)
+2008 Dec 04 21:28:09  --> fedux (n=fedux@190.55.126.139) has joined #gentoo-kde
+2008 Dec 04 21:28:11  <jmbsvicetto> app-portage/g-cpan g-cpan: generate and install CPAN modules using portage
+2008 Dec 04 21:28:19  <krytzz> hm
+2008 Dec 04 21:28:58  <krytzz> i assume this is like ruby gems?
+2008 Dec 04 21:28:59  <reavertm> so dedicated tool only for some plasmoids?
+2008 Dec 04 21:29:24  <reavertm> not worth it imho
+2008 Dec 04 21:29:31  <jmbsvicetto> I haven't looked at their implementation, but if I'm not mistaken, they've created a tool to help install packages in cpan. So instead of having one ebuild for every kde-look package, we could try to have some tool that helps install packages from kde-look
+2008 Dec 04 21:29:38  <tampakrap> i thought that upstream was going to apply a tool for downloading and easy installing plasmoids
+2008 Dec 04 21:29:53  <krytzz> yeah kde-look, but plasmoids still have to be compiled
+2008 Dec 04 21:30:04  <krytzz> cpan stuff not
+2008 Dec 04 21:30:07  <reavertm> and have various dependencies
+2008 Dec 04 21:30:31  <jmbsvicetto> No way to get them working without ebuilds?
+2008 Dec 04 21:30:34  <krytzz> tampakrap hm but only for script plasmoids?
+2008 Dec 04 21:30:34  <tampakrap> and apply to different kde versions
+2008 Dec 04 21:30:44  <tampakrap> i'm not sure
+2008 Dec 04 21:30:48  <reavertm> well, actually I was thinking about some ebuild generator with automatic depencency discovering (originally for plasmoids from playground)
+2008 Dec 04 21:31:11  <scarabeus> jmbsvicetto: not bad idea
+2008 Dec 04 21:31:13  <jmbsvicetto> I think we need to think more about this
+2008 Dec 04 21:31:17  <scarabeus> writing it down as long-term goal
+2008 Dec 04 21:31:18  <reavertm> while ebuild generator (without deps) I got done already, eclass is not yet ready for fetch/unpack from playground
+2008 Dec 04 21:31:56  <jmbsvicetto> Are plasmoids "heavy"?
+2008 Dec 04 21:32:09  <tampakrap> some of them
+2008 Dec 04 21:32:12  <tampakrap> very few
+2008 Dec 04 21:32:13  <krytzz> some are pretty normal c++ apps, so i would say yes
+2008 Dec 04 21:32:33  <krytzz> the script ones can be installed by plasma, we dont have to care about these
+2008 Dec 04 21:33:38  <jmbsvicetto> Anything else?
+2008 Dec 04 21:33:45  <reavertm> well, we could do as well some knewstuff2 interface for kde4 for plasmoids but we're not kde devs..
+2008 Dec 04 21:34:10  <reavertm> (it could reduce problem of plasmoids to installing them as icon themes)
+2008 Dec 04 21:34:26  <krytzz> yeah debug useflag in eclass
+2008 Dec 04 21:34:33  <krytzz> but ok this was already discussed
+2008 Dec 04 21:34:41  <scarabeus> it is on dev already
+2008 Dec 04 21:34:45  <reavertm> was it?
+2008 Dec 04 21:34:45  <krytzz> ah ok
+2008 Dec 04 21:34:46  <scarabeus> so lets see how that evolve
+2008 Dec 04 21:34:53  <reavertm> aa, my proposition?
+2008 Dec 04 21:34:59  <scarabeus> reavertm: we might have to write it as glep
+2008 Dec 04 21:35:00  <reavertm> it won't evolve...
+2008 Dec 04 21:35:03  <scarabeus> and push it trhought
+2008 Dec 04 21:35:38  <reavertm> no way, just pass - it's against "ultimate freedom" and to package manager specific
+2008 Dec 04 21:35:45  <scarabeus> i dont care they are picky about it, i think they would not agree with anything that does not worship their ethernal glory (dont cite me that is just brief overview of those flames)
+2008 Dec 04 21:35:46  <reavertm> as it uses FEATURES
+2008 Dec 04 21:36:43  <reavertm> anyway, "our own" debug suport you mean?
+2008 Dec 04 21:37:03  <reavertm> well, "additiomnal debug codepaths" are supported already
+2008 Dec 04 21:38:01  <krytzz> hm so scarabeus whats the role model for kde-misc ebuilds now?
+2008 Dec 04 21:38:22  <scarabeus> krytzz: have no idea
+2008 Dec 04 21:38:29  <scarabeus> everything what is not in kde-base
+2008 Dec 04 21:38:32  <reavertm> actually I see no role for kde-misc really - never seen
+2008 Dec 04 21:38:32  <scarabeus> from what i can see
+2008 Dec 04 21:38:44  <reavertm> ok, kdevelop, kdesvn then?
+2008 Dec 04 21:39:03  <krytzz> hm
+2008 Dec 04 21:39:09  <scarabeus> oh it is mess like hell
+2008 Dec 04 21:39:14  <reavertm> kdevelop is in KDE even and it will be in kde-base soon I guess (released as part of KDE)
+2008 Dec 04 21:39:21  <reavertm> it is messy a bit
+2008 Dec 04 21:40:00  <scarabeus> ok is this still part of meeting chat or we can dismisso ourselfs?
+2008 Dec 04 21:40:11  <krytzz> i have nothing further
+2008 Dec 04 21:40:12  <scarabeus> oh typos it is going to kill me one day
+2008 Dec 04 21:40:39  <reavertm> scarabeus bug wranglers - needed or not?
+2008 Dec 04 21:40:47  <scarabeus> not now, we have pretty big list
+2008 Dec 04 21:40:59  <scarabeus> i will write it onto longterm with you as person interested
+2008 Dec 04 21:40:59  <scarabeus> ok
+2008 Dec 04 21:41:01  <scarabeus> ?
+2008 Dec 04 21:41:37  <jmbsvicetto> I think you're looking at it from the wrong pov - bug-wranglers
+2008 Dec 04 21:41:40  <reavertm> well, I'm not going to push if it's seen not necessary
+2008 Dec 04 21:42:13  <yngwin> ok, i'm putting in a staffing-needs/recruitment request for developers and/or herd testers for qt herd
+2008 Dec 04 21:42:16  <reavertm> I would like to model it a bit like KDE team, at least have more of them than 1
+2008 Dec 04 21:42:25  <jmbsvicetto> We don't need bug wranglers to look at new bugs and check if they're kde bugs. We need people that work through kde bugs and help get them resolved - by providing patches, by doing tests, by interacting with users.
+2008 Dec 04 21:42:31  <krytzz> ok when the eclasses are merged every kde-testing ebuild should have the KDE_MINIMUM  thing scarabeus?
+2008 Dec 04 21:42:42  <scarabeus> nope
+2008 Dec 04 21:42:56  <scarabeus> krytzz: kde_minimal is only override variable
+2008 Dec 04 21:43:00  <scarabeus> it should work as they are now
+2008 Dec 04 21:43:10  <scarabeus> read up description in eclass
+2008 Dec 04 21:43:13  <krytzz> ok
+2008 Dec 04 21:43:14  <krytzz> ill do
+2008 Dec 04 21:43:45  <jmbsvicetto> ok, one last request from me - if you work in the overlays, be sure to run repoman full from time to time. There's some extra cookies for those also running pcheck ;)
+2008 Dec 04 21:44:04  <scarabeus> http://dev.gentoo.org/~scarabeus/kde_meeting_state.txt
+2008 Dec 04 21:44:12  <scarabeus> and i am going to save the log from this
+2008 Dec 04 21:44:13  <krytzz> got it ^^
+2008 Dec 04 21:44:21  <scarabeus> should i put it onto kde space?
+2008 Dec 04 21:44:37  <tampakrap> and please try to forward my access to kde-testing, i want to do some kde3 work there
+2008 Dec 04 21:45:58  <jmbsvicetto> scarabeus: sure
diff --git a/meeting-logs/kde-herd-meeting-summary-20081204.txt b/meeting-logs/kde-herd-meeting-summary-20081204.txt
new file mode 100644
index 0000000..8f86331
--- /dev/null
+++ b/meeting-logs/kde-herd-meeting-summary-20081204.txt
@@ -0,0 +1,31 @@
+kde3:
+	cryos and tampakrap are willing to handle its dying. Their priority should be stabilising 3.5.10 and making it live along 4.X.
+kde4-eclasses:
+	currently in reviewing
+	Jmbsvicetto and krytzz promised helping me up with testing get_latest_kdedir.
+	Moving htmlhandbook to eclass? jmbsvicetto/scarabeus
+	fix remaining tree ebuild so they use NEED_KDE="version" and not NEED_KDE="slot" scarabeus will do it.
+	only eapi2 and greater in eclass: jmbsvicetto will look on this one.
+kde4:
+	try to push versioning in one prefix into upstream. It will be bliss for maintaining. cryos (on kde camp :P)
+people-in-team:
+	write mail to all whom are mentioned on project page and not active to determine their current status. :(
+	jmbsvicetto willing to do this.
+qt4:
+	yngwin is currently only qt dev, he should get some help, reavertm volunteer (see HT guys are useful :])
+tampakrap:
+	getting his ebuild-quiz done i scarabeus am willing to help. Yngwin as mentor.
+kde-crazy:
+	snapshots: tampakrap, alexxy, patrick; state: somehow working
+	live: sput, krytzz, reavertm; state: well live ;]
+networkmanager:
+	scarabeus will ask rbu if he need some help with this vital part of kde4.2 networking.
+mysql:
+	cooperate with robbat2 since kde4.2 and amarok are dead without it. Jmbsvicetto volunteer to help robbat2 so lets se what will be outcome from this.
+
+:::LONG TERM:::
+kde-look/apps:
+	maybe create some generator for those apps, take look onto app-portage/g-cpan how perl mages do it.
+bugwranglers:
+	reavertm, proposal about letting normal users to wrangle our bugs, most of them are needinfo or already closed so let users help us.
+	Maybe some wrangler-quiz.txt will be needed.
\ No newline at end of file