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Roll call:
betelgeuse here
dberkholz here
dertobi123 here
flameeyes here [cardoe]
halcy0n here
jokey here
lu_zero here
Dates, or nothing to add:
betelgeuse Monday
dberkholz Monday
dertobi123 Monday
flameeyes Cardoe will ask
halcy0n Monday
jokey Today
lu_zero ??? (Having sporadic power issues)
Unplanned topics
================
All the council members should nominate default proxies.
New topics
==========
Reactions to dev banned from freenode
-------------------------------------
rane:
I'd like to ask Council to discuss possible reactions to our developer
being banned from Freenode without providing us with a reason. ... It
would be good if Council officially protested against that ban and
demanded a detailed explanation from Freenode staff.
Q/C:
20:14 < Halcy0n@> Do we have a history of how many times this has happened?
I believe another dev was klined after this was initially
brought up.
20:14 < musikc > ive spoken with the second dev actually
20:16 < musikc > the guy said he'd done what he was told to do and was still
waiting for some resolution
20:17 < musikc > i last spoke to him on the 10th
Moving meetings to a location we control
----------------------------------------
rane:
I want Council to consider moving their meetings somewhere where third
parties can't control who in Gentoo can attend and who can't. Like our
own small and created just for this purpose IRC server.
Q/C:
20:26 < Cardoe > We already have a public ML where predominately a lot of
the discussion takes place. Is there really any actual
supression occurring because of our use of Freenode?
20:26 * jokey is still not in favour of running an irc network
20:27 < dberkholz@> Halcy0n: motivation is that when our devs get klined, it's
really hard for them to work with others on irc
20:28 < dberkholz@> antarus: as i was saying earlier, freenode is a tool for
us. if that tool is getting in our way, it needs to change
20:29 < Cardoe > dberkholz: the question is the tool getting in our way or
hindering us. Or will devising our own tool hinder us more..
20:30 < Halcy0n@> Cardoe: I think us having to maintain it will be more of a
headache.
20:30 < Cardoe > Halcy0n: I'm in agreement with you on that.
20:30 <dertobi123@> dito
20:31 < jokey@> indeed, let's discuss this there
20:32 < Cardoe > We have other things to use manpower on, like developing a
distribution.
We currently have 2 freenode group contacts: fmccor and rane.
Favor irc.gentoo.org alias in docs, etc
---------------------------------------
rane:
I want Council to consider creating and using irc.gentoo.org alias
instead of irc.freenode.net in our docs, news items and so on. The alias
would allow us to move out of the network more easily should we ever
decide to do so.
Q/C:
spb brought up a good point to think about.
20:35 < spb > as people connect to irc.gentoo.org and assume that
generic-sounding channel names are all about gentoo
20:35 <Betelgeuse@> spb: And people connect to freenode and assume gentoo-java
is about generic Java
20:37 < jokey@> I'd say at least one user every 3-4 days over in #gentoo-php
20:37 <Betelgeuse@> jokey: Quite common on #gentoo-java too even with the
warnings all over the place.
Why aren't fired developers banned from the channels where they
displayed this behavior?
---------------------------------------------------------------
yngwin:
It really baffles me that some developers are forcefully retired for
anti-social behavior, but are not consequently banned from the places
where they display this behavior, such as our MLs and IRC channels. What
good is it to retire developers, but allow them to continue to be
disruptive? I would like the Council to decide for a change in our
policy on this point.
Q/C:
20:44 <dleverton_ > As I said on the list (maybe too late for anyone to have
noticed), since yngwin said there were're actually any devs
that this applies to, is there anything to discuss?
20:45 < dberkholz@> dleverton_: i must've interpreted his response differently
from you
20:45 < yngwin > i didnt say it like that, dleverton_
20:45 < dberkholz@> what i understood was that we should ban them from the same
communication channel
20:46 < dberkholz@> and allow other ones where they handled themselves
differently
spb commented that the three fired devs were actually banned from
#gentoo-dev for quite some time.
20:51 < musikc > from a devrel perspective, we do not give voice to every
dev who is retired so why should a forcibly retired dev be
any different?
20:51 < tomaw > Is the council interested in the autodevoice feature or is
this rambling off topic?
20:51 <jmbsvicett > tomaw: As long as we stick to freenode, -1 is something
that interests us
20:52 < Cardoe+> Standardize a policy for what happens to voluntarily
retired devs and forcibly retired devs.
20:53 < Cardoe+> Can we actually tweak it?
20:53 < Cardoe+> the council direct devrel to come up with a proposed
solution/policy
20:55 < musikc > dberkholz, your call. happy to assist by doing work or by
just stating current process and devrel stance :)
PMS as a draft standard of EAPI 0
---------------------------------
spb:
It should be treated as a draft standard, and any deviations from it
found in the gentoo tree or package managers should have a bug filed
against either the deviator or PMS to resolve the differences.
Alternatively, what (specific) changes are required to PMS before such a
statement can be made?
Q/C:
The portage devs need to commit to it. How do conflicts get resolved?
20:56 < dberkholz@> we were talking about this earlier today in here
<20:57 < dberkholz@> to quickly summarize, EAPI 0 and portage need to agree.
there are some conflicts of opinion, and the question is
how do they get resolved?
20:58 < dberkholz@> 17:24 < zmedico > dberkholz: mainly these two:
http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=222721
http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=232990
20:58 < dberkholz@> 17:25 < zmedico > In both cases I consider something to
be negligible that the pms folks do not
20:59 < Cardoe+> potentially creating a PMS editor post.
21:00 < Cardoe+> Put it in the hands of a third party
21:00 < Cardoe+> and if there's a conflict, let the council decide
21:01 < musikc > dberkholz, conflict in that some feel PMS is biased?
21:07 < spb > differences will be resolved by filing a bug, so what needs
to be sorted is what sort of escalation/mediation mechanism
there is
We ran past the 1-hour mark, so this is pushed back to the list. It will
be on the next agenda in 2 weeks if it's not resolved by then.
|
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