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diff --git a/meeting-minutes/2006-01-07-project-meeting.txt b/meeting-minutes/2006-01-07-project-meeting.txt new file mode 100644 index 0000000..6ae9983 --- /dev/null +++ b/meeting-minutes/2006-01-07-project-meeting.txt @@ -0,0 +1,640 @@ +Jan 07 20:04:47 rl03 heh +Jan 07 20:04:56 rl03 just pinged Stu on skype :) +Jan 07 20:05:00 rl03 h's coming +Jan 07 20:05:01 lares are we still waiting on stuart? +Jan 07 20:05:05 Stuart lo +Jan 07 20:05:07 Stuart sorry +Jan 07 20:05:10 lisa and behold +Jan 07 20:05:11 lares :) +Jan 07 20:05:15 CHTEKK lo Stuart :) +Jan 07 20:05:17 wrobel ;) +Jan 07 20:05:20 wrobel hi stuart +Jan 07 20:05:21 rl03 Stuart-- +Jan 07 20:05:22 CHTEKK heh you forgot :P +Jan 07 20:05:24 rl03 :) +Jan 07 20:05:28 Stuart totally forgot +Jan 07 20:05:32 rl03 he was too busy blogging about it :) +Jan 07 20:05:36 Stuart lol +Jan 07 20:05:37 * lares hears applause around +Jan 07 20:05:41 lares :) +Jan 07 20:05:49 CHTEKK that's just your imagination lares :P +Jan 07 20:05:54 Stuart :P +Jan 07 20:06:09 lares well I guess i need to see my shrink +Jan 07 20:06:11 rl03 ok, who's here for the web-apps meeting and wants to participate? +Jan 07 20:06:18 Usage: ME <action>, sends the action to the current channel (actions are written in the 3rd person, like /me jumps) +Jan 07 20:06:20 rl03 and how do we log this thing? +Jan 07 20:06:21 Stuart er, me? :) +Jan 07 20:06:22 lares I :) +Jan 07 20:06:24 * CHTEKK is here for that +Jan 07 20:06:29 * wrobel +Jan 07 20:06:32 * rl03 +Jan 07 20:06:38 * Stuart +Jan 07 20:06:43 * lares +Jan 07 20:06:46 Stuart CHTEKK: can you log this plz? +Jan 07 20:06:49 CHTEKK Stuart, btw, cpw just fixed the dep in swig :) now it's virtual/php +Jan 07 20:06:54 CHTEKK Stuart, sure, already logging +Jan 07 20:06:58 Stuart ok +Jan 07 20:07:03 * Stuart pulls up the agenda +Jan 07 20:07:08 Stuart first item on the agenda is elections +Jan 07 20:07:15 rl03 Stuart: i mailed you some additional stuff btw +Jan 07 20:07:19 rl03 for the agenda +Jan 07 20:07:29 Stuart rl03: ah, sorry, haven't seen +Jan 07 20:07:32 Stuart my bad +Jan 07 20:07:46 Stuart can I make a suggestion to help the meeting go smoothly? +Jan 07 20:07:52 rl03 please +Jan 07 20:07:54 Stuart ok +Jan 07 20:08:02 Stuart one person speaks at a time +Jan 07 20:08:07 Stuart to cut down on confusion +Jan 07 20:08:11 Stuart if you haven't finished, ... +Jan 07 20:08:17 Stuart end each line with ... +Jan 07 20:08:18 lares :done when finished +Jan 07 20:08:28 Stuart and :done when finished. :done +Jan 07 20:08:34 Stuart that ok with everyone? +Jan 07 20:08:36 wrobel sure +Jan 07 20:08:38 rl03 aye +Jan 07 20:08:40 lares :) +Jan 07 20:08:43 Stuart cool :) +Jan 07 20:08:47 Stuart ok, positions ... +Jan 07 20:08:48 lisa roger, over +Jan 07 20:09:04 CHTEKK k +Jan 07 20:09:04 Stuart "traditional" positions are strategic lead and operational lead ... +Jan 07 20:09:21 Stuart personally, I'm easy on this. I don't care what the posts are called ... +Jan 07 20:09:31 Stuart and would be happy with them called "leads" :done +Jan 07 20:09:40 rl03 fine with me :done +Jan 07 20:09:46 wrobel me too :done +Jan 07 20:09:49 CHTEKK I see no problem with that : done +Jan 07 20:09:52 lares one or two positions? :done +Jan 07 20:10:02 Stuart I suggest two positions at least :done +Jan 07 20:10:21 CHTEKK yeah that's what the metastructure requires iirc :done +Jan 07 20:10:41 lares one stratigic and one operational, then have devs and AT/HT's +Jan 07 20:10:43 lares :done +Jan 07 20:11:01 Stuart wrobel? +Jan 07 20:11:07 CHTEKK what's the exact difference/requirements between the two leads anyway? :done +Jan 07 20:11:23 wrobel fine with me :done +Jan 07 20:11:23 Stuart there are no requirements, except that we elect them :done +Jan 07 20:12:01 Stuart ok ... let's elect two leads ... +Jan 07 20:12:01 CHTEKK yup, but what are they (in theory) expected to do?:done +Jan 07 20:12:03 lares I think we need to define the differences between op & strategic ... +Jan 07 20:12:10 CHTEKK exactly:done +Jan 07 20:12:24 Stuart personally, I'm happy with there being no difference ... +Jan 07 20:12:27 lares where does one position begine and end :done +Jan 07 20:12:59 Stuart and that the leads main role is keeping the team going, and being the liasion between us and the council for official business :done +Jan 07 20:13:13 rl03 i don't think there's going to be much difference. i think we'll continue to work as we're working now with some official titles slapped on :done +Jan 07 20:13:26 wrobel it won't change anything at what we avtually do. Or are there any significant outwart requirements? :done +Jan 07 20:13:36 CHTEKK yeah, in this case having two is more a question of redundancy than of different roles imo:done +Jan 07 20:13:37 Stuart I'm not aware of any requirements :done +Jan 07 20:13:45 wrobel so I guess we agree on it :) :done +Jan 07 20:13:49 Stuart I agree on the redundancy thing :done +Jan 07 20:13:50 lares IMO, Stratgic is about 'where we are going' and operation is more of the devrel, and gentoo-specfic business :done +Jan 07 20:14:30 wrobel yeah, but webapps is not exactly a large body :done +Jan 07 20:14:35 rl03 redundancy++ +Jan 07 20:14:42 wrobel so it does not matter too much :) :done +Jan 07 20:14:52 wrobel lets vote :done +Jan 07 20:14:53 Stuart we all agreed then? :done +Jan 07 20:14:57 wrobel yup +Jan 07 20:15:00 CHTEKK yup:done +Jan 07 20:15:04 Stuart ok, we need candidates :) :done +Jan 07 20:15:18 wrobel stu, rl03 :done ;) +Jan 07 20:15:26 CHTEKK I propose Stuart, rl03 and wrobel :):done +Jan 07 20:15:30 lares just so I'm clear.. Two roles, identical.. :done +Jan 07 20:15:41 wrobel for the sake of obeying the ruls, I can't ;) :done +Jan 07 20:15:54 wrobel not yet dev for 6 mo :done +Jan 07 20:15:57 CHTEKK lares, yeah basically, if one's not there the other takes over (redundancy), and nothing much changes:done +Jan 07 20:16:22 CHTEKK there is such a rule? :| isn't that only for mentoring new devs? :done +Jan 07 20:16:24 wrobel yeah, like if stu misses the meeting, rl03 can take over :P :done +Jan 07 20:16:29 Stuart :P +Jan 07 20:16:45 rl03 CHTEKK: not a formal rule, but probably makes sense :done +Jan 07 20:16:46 lares lol +Jan 07 20:16:58 rl03 fine by me :done +Jan 07 20:17:08 Stuart any more nominations? :done +Jan 07 20:17:14 lares rl03 && Stuart sounds good to me. +Jan 07 20:17:17 wrobel :) +Jan 07 20:17:32 CHTEKK hmm two candidates, two positions, there's not much to vote then:done +Jan 07 20:17:37 Stuart lol +Jan 07 20:17:43 lares we can reelect when wrobel is 'available' +Jan 07 20:17:52 lares :done +Jan 07 20:18:04 CHTEKK yeah, policy says that reelections should anyway happen at least each 12 months:done +Jan 07 20:18:20 Stuart ok, does anyone want to oppose rl03 and me as "leads"? :done +Jan 07 20:18:34 lares Jan now, I say again in 4months. :done +Jan 07 20:18:41 wrobel nope. vote for stu as "strategic" and rl03 as "operational" :done +Jan 07 20:18:42 CHTEKK (anyway, the "to be lead you must be dev > 6 monhts" rule does not exist/I can't find it, so it's not policy) +Jan 07 20:19:00 CHTEKK agree to what wrobel said:done +Jan 07 20:19:08 rl03 agreed +Jan 07 20:19:11 lares strategic -> Stuart , ops -> rl03 ++ +Jan 07 20:19:27 wrobel CHTEKK: does not really matter. gives me more time to prepare for the next elections :) :done +Jan 07 20:19:45 rl03 wrobel: better start working on your acceptance speech now :) :done +Jan 07 20:19:46 Stuart ok, last chance - any objections? :done +Jan 07 20:19:55 wrobel rl03: right :) :done +Jan 07 20:19:59 CHTEKK lol, that means we'll see big ads on planet.g.o with your photo and "VOTE ME!" around in 4 months?:done +Jan 07 20:20:03 wrobel Stuart: none :done +Jan 07 20:20:18 lares no objections here. +Jan 07 20:20:20 CHTEKK Stuart, none :done +Jan 07 20:20:22 wrobel CHTEKK: hey, great idea, let's talk to my campaign people about it :done +Jan 07 20:20:27 Stuart lol +Jan 07 20:20:55 wrobel ok, funiiest election I ever did. Point one finished :) :done +Jan 07 20:21:01 lares Move to next item :done +Jan 07 20:21:01 Stuart ok, I declare the vote closed. rl03 and myself as leads. :done +Jan 07 20:21:15 rl03 wrobel: you must not have voted in belarus then :\ :done +Jan 07 20:21:36 Stuart point two: update on security policy w/ upstream. rl03? :done +Jan 07 20:21:42 rl03 ok +Jan 07 20:21:44 rl03 ... +Jan 07 20:21:56 wrobel rl03: that's more serious business and I don't know if I would consider it "funny" in any way :done +Jan 07 20:22:06 CHTEKK ok then, through t3h logs shall this vote be known to all mankind and recorded in history :P :done +Jan 07 20:22:14 wrobel ;) +Jan 07 20:22:36 rl03 per Stuart's earlier email to -dev, we're starting to contact upstream to get their contact info and establish relationships +Jan 07 20:22:40 rl03 ... +Jan 07 20:22:57 rl03 i've gone through all ebuilds owned by us and emailed their upstream... +Jan 07 20:23:14 rl03 to date, 55 emails went out, with 24 replies... +Jan 07 20:23:30 rl03 that info is being compiled on http://devwiki.gentoo.org/tiki-index.php?page=Upstream+info ... +Jan 07 20:24:11 rl03 some developers requested that i not disclose their private info. i've made a note of that on the wiki page, contact me if you need it... +Jan 07 20:24:41 rl03 i'm planning on following up with the rest in a week or so... +Jan 07 20:25:04 rl03 use this info to ping upstream if there's a security issue etc ... +Jan 07 20:25:26 rl03 just as a side note, most of the replies have been very positive and appreciative ... +Jan 07 20:25:37 rl03 so that's going to be good for our relationship with upstream... +Jan 07 20:25:47 rl03 questions? :done +Jan 07 20:25:59 wrobel sounds pretty good :done +Jan 07 20:26:05 lares yup... +Jan 07 20:26:06 CHTEKK none from me, sounds good, great work!:done +Jan 07 20:26:06 Stuart rl03: can we order the info on that page alphabetically? :done +Jan 07 20:26:14 rl03 Stuart: will do :done +Jan 07 20:26:32 rl03 oh, if anyone needs a copy of the email I sent out, ping me :done +Jan 07 20:26:32 Stuart I think this is great work :done +Jan 07 20:26:56 wrobel so we will make it mandatory to aqcuire this info before moving anything into "production-stable" or portage, right? :done +Jan 07 20:26:57 lares do we have specified people who willl contact upstream? :done +Jan 07 20:27:11 rl03 wrobel: yes, we should as a rule :done +Jan 07 20:27:19 wrobel lares: depends on the project. most have some sort of contact option. :done +Jan 07 20:27:31 rl03 lares: anyone who's a member of the herd shuold be able to, i think :done +Jan 07 20:27:47 wrobel lares: sorry, misunderstood your question :) :done +Jan 07 20:27:59 Stuart wrobel: http://svn.gnqs.org/projects/gentoo-webapps-overlay/wiki/UpstreamRequirements +Jan 07 20:28:03 Stuart :done +Jan 07 20:28:13 wrobel Stuart: already on my del.icio.us list :) :done +Jan 07 20:28:19 lares Okay, if there is a restriction, note it pls. :done +Jan 07 20:28:29 rl03 lares: will do :done +Jan 07 20:29:13 Stuart does anyone thing that there is any extra information we should be asking upstream? :done +Jan 07 20:29:15 rl03 lares: made a note on the wiki :done +Jan 07 20:29:20 lares SOunds all good to me :done +Jan 07 20:30:05 wrobel would only like to know if there is really no possibility to store the info somewhere directly in the ebuild. :done +Jan 07 20:30:14 rl03 wrobel: ah, great point ... +Jan 07 20:30:30 rl03 there's a GLEP (42 i believe) that has to do wit this ... +Jan 07 20:30:34 CHTEKK wrobel, ebuild not really (comments?), but there is a proposal to store them in metadata.xml (GLEP 4X iirc) +Jan 07 20:30:37 rl03 i spoke with ciaranm and clarified it ... +Jan 07 20:30:48 CHTEKK glep 46 +Jan 07 20:31:00 lares that is going to council IIRC. +Jan 07 20:31:06 rl03 it doesn't look like it'll be a great fit for our needs as a lot of our info isn't structured very well ... +Jan 07 20:31:15 rl03 but there's some overlap :done +Jan 07 20:31:30 Stuart do we need to change GLEP 46 then? :done +Jan 07 20:32:05 rl03 his main objection was that our info is unstructured. if we can come up with a well-defined set of extra tags we want to add, that would be good :done +Jan 07 20:32:24 wrobel looks like there is only something missing about security :done +Jan 07 20:32:55 Stuart rl03: I think we can do something to make it more structured. I'll take an action to work on that :done +Jan 07 20:33:05 lares until we have a well defined list, could we add a Our_metadata file to our overlay? +Jan 07 20:33:09 lares ... +Jan 07 20:33:09 rl03 Stuart: great, thanks. i think that'll be good :done +Jan 07 20:33:12 lares :done +Jan 07 20:33:31 Stuart lares: good idea. we could just make it a README.txt for now :done +Jan 07 20:33:39 rl03 ++ +Jan 07 20:33:52 wrobel ok +Jan 07 20:34:03 CHTEKK k +Jan 07 20:34:10 lares Stuart: name it whatever.. but have it in the same file format.. www-foo/bar/files/OURfile.txt +Jan 07 20:34:33 lares :done +Jan 07 20:34:38 Stuart I would suggest putting it in the package dir, not the files dir :done +Jan 07 20:34:44 rl03 yes +Jan 07 20:35:16 lares okay sounds good :done +Jan 07 20:35:19 Stuart I think the format rl03 has used on the wiki would be fine as a text document :done +Jan 07 20:35:34 wrobel absolutely :done +Jan 07 20:36:04 * lares agrees +Jan 07 20:36:22 Stuart ok, next item? :done +Jan 07 20:36:28 wrobel sure :done +Jan 07 20:36:35 lares next++ +Jan 07 20:36:38 rl03 Stuart: can you merge my suggested agenda items real quick? +Jan 07 20:36:56 rl03 just so it's all in one place :done +Jan 07 20:37:09 Stuart rl03: I don't have access to my email. wireless point died :done +Jan 07 20:37:17 Stuart rl03: can you add them to the wiki page? :done +Jan 07 20:37:29 rl03 i'll add a comment, ok +Jan 07 20:37:32 Stuart ta +Jan 07 20:38:06 Stuart sorry, I have to set openvpn up in bridging mode before I can access my email again. this should be easy, but the baselayout changes appear to make this a chore :( :done +Jan 07 20:38:10 rl03 bah, i can't. don't have my password here :done +Jan 07 20:38:23 Stuart ok, post items here, and I will update :done +Jan 07 20:38:37 rl03 - Status of virtual/httpd +Jan 07 20:38:42 rl03 - Status of project page +Jan 07 20:38:46 rl03 - Update on properly specifying mysql/postgres dependencies in ebuilds +Jan 07 20:38:52 rl03 - Vision & role for w-c +Jan 07 20:38:56 rl03 - Discuss whether we want to put out regular project status updates +Jan 07 20:39:00 rl03 - Figure out if we want to continue with trac vs. bugzie for overlay maintenance +Jan 07 20:39:04 rl03 done +Jan 07 20:39:32 lares can we append Status stuff to the end. pls. I am puhed for time :done +Jan 07 20:39:44 rl03 it should all go to the end, yes +Jan 07 20:40:39 Stuart page updated. please look, and suggest any changes to the order :done +Jan 07 20:40:42 lares stuff that needs voting and disscussion first :done +Jan 07 20:41:19 rl03 well , all of it is discussion stuff. i think it's fine in that order, let's just gor through :done +Jan 07 20:41:39 Stuart ok, next item: update on webapps overlay work. rl03 again, plz :) :done +Jan 07 20:41:40 wrobel ok :done +Jan 07 20:41:47 lares item3+ +Jan 07 20:41:58 rl03 ok ... +Jan 07 20:42:15 rl03 you've all seen the new overlay ... +Jan 07 20:42:28 rl03 http://svn.gnqs.org/projects/gentoo-webapps-overlay/wiki/OverlayContents is fully up to date ... +Jan 07 20:42:53 rl03 pretty much all of the ebuilds in bugzie that's been sitting there for a while are in at this point ... +Jan 07 20:43:34 rl03 the next step is to nail down our policy wrt to moving from experimental to production-ready and then to the main tree ... +Jan 07 20:44:01 rl03 and continue efforts to recruit maintainers ... +Jan 07 20:44:22 rl03 at this point, stuart, wrobel, lares, CHTEKK and myself have write access +Jan 07 20:44:31 rl03 ... +Jan 07 20:44:35 * CHTEKK had not, the last time I checked:done +Jan 07 20:44:56 rl03 :done +Jan 07 20:45:45 Stuart thanks for the update. I suggest this is the wrong forum to work on the policies; how about we do that as we go along day to day? :done +Jan 07 20:46:07 rl03 i agree ... +Jan 07 20:46:10 CHTEKK agreed:done +Jan 07 20:46:25 lares policies_work wiki might be in order. :done +Jan 07 20:46:26 rl03 we should do it soon though, so we can officially launch the thing and start promoting it :done +Jan 07 20:46:38 Stuart rl03: agreed. :done +Jan 07 20:46:40 wrobel fine by me. :done +Jan 07 20:47:03 rl03 Stuart: i'll give it a shot and run by you :done +Jan 07 20:47:12 Stuart rl03: ok, thanks. next item? :done +Jan 07 20:47:19 lares next++ +Jan 07 20:47:43 wrobel is the overlay going to be open to outside devs? and if so what are the requirements? :done +Jan 07 20:48:06 Stuart wrobel: good question. answer is that I want the overlay open to outside devs, like lares here :done +Jan 07 20:48:12 lares wrobel: what do yo mean by 'open' :done +Jan 07 20:48:14 rl03 wrobel: i think it should. requirements should be having contributed a few good ebuilds :done +Jan 07 20:48:32 wrobel sounds good :done +Jan 07 20:48:34 Stuart rl03: how about requirements is approval by a lead? :done +Jan 07 20:48:39 rl03 wrobel: as well as being willing to hang out here at least somewhat regularly +Jan 07 20:48:43 rl03 Stuart: good point +Jan 07 20:48:57 rl03 Stuart: btw, see my email to that Japanese guy? +Jan 07 20:48:58 * lares is a gentoo AT for x86 / hardened :) +Jan 07 20:49:11 wrobel think it also depends a little bit on the workload for adding new devs ... +Jan 07 20:49:14 Stuart rl03: no. see earlier comments about can't get to email yet :) :done +Jan 07 20:49:19 rl03 heh +Jan 07 20:49:27 wrobel how much of an effort is it to add new people to trac and svn :done +Jan 07 20:49:58 Stuart wrobel: takes 5 mins tops. :done +Jan 07 20:50:01 CHTEKK little effort, an htpasswd command and that's it +Jan 07 20:50:11 Stuart wrobel: I'll write a web-based app so that others can do it if I'm not around. :done +Jan 07 20:50:32 wrobel Stuart: :) +Jan 07 20:50:59 wrobel so then I think the policy that the webapp people can add devs is pretty good :done +Jan 07 20:51:43 Stuart ok, do we agree that an "outside" dev needs to be approved by one of the leads? :vote +Jan 07 20:51:51 rl03 agreed +Jan 07 20:51:52 wrobel agreed :done +Jan 07 20:51:58 CHTEKK agreed:done +Jan 07 20:52:00 lares wrobel: ... with the condition that they only work in experimental till approved by leads. :done +Jan 07 20:52:22 Stuart I don't think we need that restriction. :done +Jan 07 20:52:28 lares agreed... +Jan 07 20:52:44 Stuart ok, next item? :done +Jan 07 20:52:45 wrobel no, it's svn, so we could revert and it's no high security prison :) :done +Jan 07 20:53:10 lares next ++ +Jan 07 20:53:49 wrobel wordpress? :done +Jan 07 20:53:49 Stuart ok, wordpress maintenance +Jan 07 20:54:01 Stuart anyone know what state wordpress ebuild is in? :done +Jan 07 20:54:10 rl03 nfc +Jan 07 20:54:13 lares nfc +Jan 07 20:54:16 wrobel nope :done +Jan 07 20:54:21 * rl03 checks +Jan 07 20:54:36 CHTEKK iirc wordpress 2.0 is out, the ebuild is still at 1.5.2, furthermore it doesn't work correctly with dev-lang/php new style PHP +Jan 07 20:54:41 rl03 ouch +Jan 07 20:54:46 rl03 it's a bit ugly atm :done +Jan 07 20:54:59 Stuart anyone heard from superlag? :done +Jan 07 20:55:13 rl03 no +Jan 07 20:55:53 Stuart ok, I think we need a new maintainer for wordpress +Jan 07 20:56:16 Stuart anyone want to take it? :done +Jan 07 20:56:28 wrobel anyone of us that uses it? :done +Jan 07 20:56:31 * rl03 has a funny feeling +Jan 07 20:56:42 * lares looks around +Jan 07 20:56:51 CHTEKK I use it atm, but I installed it by myself and anyway am waiting for Stu's patches to migrate to b2evo :) +Jan 07 20:56:59 Stuart I'll take it +Jan 07 20:57:02 rl03 i'll do it +Jan 07 20:57:05 Stuart lol +Jan 07 20:57:08 wrobel heh +Jan 07 20:57:10 CHTEKK I could do it :) +Jan 07 20:57:25 Stuart ok, chtekk can have it :P +Jan 07 20:57:25 rl03 Stuart: go for it +Jan 07 20:57:36 rl03 CHTEKK: go for it +Jan 07 20:57:42 CHTEKK k +Jan 07 20:57:42 lares CHTEKK: IT yours... +Jan 07 20:57:47 Stuart :) +Jan 07 20:57:51 rl03 CHTEKK: please contact upstream though +Jan 07 20:57:56 rl03 and add to the wiki +Jan 07 20:58:08 CHTEKK security info et all that? k +Jan 07 20:58:22 Stuart if wordpress can't meet our upstream requirements, I'd like it punted plz :done +Jan 07 20:58:37 CHTEKK need to speak with cshields then to get access to the devwiki +Jan 07 20:58:40 CHTEKK ok +Jan 07 20:58:41 DerCorny wordpress is t3h ev1l +Jan 07 20:58:46 rl03 don't care one way or another :done +Jan 07 20:58:54 CHTEKK yeah the security history is pretty bad :done +Jan 07 20:59:05 CHTEKK and 2.0 is atm practically unusable it seems with bugs :) +Jan 07 20:59:13 Stuart yuck +Jan 07 20:59:40 lares Details... next item ? :done +Jan 07 21:00:14 Stuart next item is drupal maintenance (just added to agenda) +Jan 07 21:00:28 rl03 is st_lim around _at all_? +Jan 07 21:00:44 Stuart tbh, I don't care. his ebuilds are terrible :done +Jan 07 21:01:04 Stuart I will sort out drupal, as I added it to the tree. that ok? :done +Jan 07 21:01:13 rl03 ok +Jan 07 21:01:21 rl03 Stuart: please contact upstream and add to the wiki +Jan 07 21:01:29 Stuart rl03: ok, will do +Jan 07 21:01:34 Stuart next item? +Jan 07 21:01:56 wrobel ok +Jan 07 21:02:15 Stuart next item is webalizer maintenance (also just added to agenda) +Jan 07 21:02:26 Stuart rl03? +Jan 07 21:02:26 rl03 smithj helped a bit with that, ... +Jan 07 21:02:40 rl03 but there a quite a few open bugs about it, and i'd like help :done +Jan 07 21:03:00 CHTEKK I'll see what I can do, as I use it and need it for SysCP:done +Jan 07 21:03:08 lares Sorry Ppl. I must step out.. Only thing I have to say is First Sat of every month @ 1700 UTC +Jan 07 21:03:11 rl03 CHTEKK: thanks much. no need to ping upstream +Jan 07 21:03:21 Stuart lares: ok, thanks for joining us +Jan 07 21:03:25 rl03 lares: thanks +Jan 07 21:03:30 wrobel lares: cu. thanks +Jan 07 21:03:34 lares I'll read full transcript later. +Jan 07 21:03:35 CHTEKK cu lares +Jan 07 21:03:52 * lares has quit (" Later all.") +Jan 07 21:04:13 Stuart next item is mysql/postgres deps in ebuilds. rl03? +Jan 07 21:04:23 rl03 ok ... +Jan 07 21:04:45 rl03 most of the ebuilds in the tree currently depend on mysql/postgres unconditionally. this is wrong in most cases ... +Jan 07 21:04:58 rl03 most web-apps can conncet to a remote db server ... +Jan 07 21:05:12 rl03 i've started adding a use flag and doing a conditional dep... +Jan 07 21:05:15 rl03 thoughts on that? :done +Jan 07 21:05:37 Stuart do we yet have ebuilds w/ just mysql libraries in? :done +Jan 07 21:05:44 CHTEKK good idea for those webapps that support it:done +Jan 07 21:05:54 Stuart ignore my last comment :P +Jan 07 21:05:56 wrobel use flags sound like a good solution :done +Jan 07 21:06:03 CHTEKK Stuart, no, read mails to php-bugs:done +Jan 07 21:06:11 rl03 ok, then please use that syntax for new ebuilds. check joomla for example :done +Jan 07 21:06:35 Stuart ok, anyone mind if I move w-c to last on agenda? +Jan 07 21:06:41 rl03 sure +Jan 07 21:06:43 wrobel ok with me +Jan 07 21:06:56 Stuart done +Jan 07 21:07:04 Stuart next is regular project status updates +Jan 07 21:07:23 Stuart I would like to publish these at least once a quarter +Jan 07 21:07:30 rl03 yes +Jan 07 21:07:37 wrobel I think that would be really useful. :done +Jan 07 21:07:41 Stuart what frequency do we prefer? :done +Jan 07 21:07:50 rl03 quarterly makes sense to me :done +Jan 07 21:07:59 wrobel three or four months sounds good :don +Jan 07 21:08:33 wrobel should we have a page where we collect important changes/updates? :done +Jan 07 21:08:41 Stuart I will take responsibiliy for writing them and getting them publicised +Jan 07 21:08:47 rl03 Stuart: ++ +Jan 07 21:08:50 Stuart wrobel: absolutely +Jan 07 21:08:58 wrobel overlay wiki? :done +Jan 07 21:09:08 Stuart overlay wiki++ +Jan 07 21:09:08 rl03 wrobel: no, should be our project page (agenda item 11) +Jan 07 21:09:22 rl03 or is that our project page? +Jan 07 21:09:23 Stuart rl03: I will put the quarterly ones on the project page. +Jan 07 21:09:26 wrobel rl03: is it as easily accesible as the overlay? :done +Jan 07 21:09:33 CHTEKK we can put them on both once we have the text:done +Jan 07 21:09:37 rl03 agreed +Jan 07 21:09:43 Stuart rl03: how about stuff accumulates on the wiki, and I'll move them across once a quarter? :done +Jan 07 21:09:48 rl03 Stuart: good +Jan 07 21:09:58 wrobel Stuart: yeah, that's what I meant too :done +Jan 07 21:10:02 CHTEKK k :done +Jan 07 21:10:14 Stuart ok, next is trac vs bugzie +Jan 07 21:10:34 Stuart rl03? +Jan 07 21:10:51 rl03 in light of recent issues with trac notifications, ... +Jan 07 21:10:57 * Stuart hides +Jan 07 21:10:59 wrobel :) +Jan 07 21:11:01 rl03 which seem to be fixed now .. +Jan 07 21:11:06 * Stuart beams +Jan 07 21:11:13 rl03 perhaps it makes sense to keep using bugzie? ... +Jan 07 21:11:29 Stuart I have no opinion +Jan 07 21:11:29 rl03 wrobel also brought up a point that someone asked how to follow a particular ebuild? :done +Jan 07 21:11:47 wrobel I think it is great to have the ebuilds in svn ... +Jan 07 21:11:47 CHTEKK depends... for stuff that's overlay-only, I'm not sure gentoo-infra will love the fact we use th gentoo bugzie for thoes bugs... +Jan 07 21:11:55 rl03 CHTEKK: agree +Jan 07 21:12:15 Stuart I don't think infra would mind +Jan 07 21:12:15 wrobel but people are used to bugzilla and subscribing to specific ebuilds on bugzilla :done +Jan 07 21:12:17 CHTEKK ... a lot of people already don't love the concept of our overlays, especially since we don't use gentoo-infra:done +Jan 07 21:12:40 wrobel CHTEKK: an ebuild should always be added to bugzilla.... +Jan 07 21:12:52 CHTEKK and imo it doesn't seem correct to use gentoo-infra for stuff that's not in the Portage tree... +Jan 07 21:13:04 wrobel an outside user will first look there if there is an ebuild for the app that he wants to use ... +Jan 07 21:13:24 wrobel so it should be mentioned there :done +Jan 07 21:13:45 CHTEKK wrobel, yeah ok, but once the ebuild is in the overlay, only there, and all bugs "please make ebuild for XXX!" are closed in bugs.g.o, imo we shouldn't open new ones or new requests concerning that ebuild again in bugs.g.o +Jan 07 21:13:50 CHTEKK at least not until it's officially in the tree +Jan 07 21:14:13 rl03 CHTEKK: yes +Jan 07 21:14:15 CHTEKK bugs of the type "please do ebuild for app X!" will anyway still end up in bugs.g.o +Jan 07 21:14:20 wrobel CHTEKK: no, but as long as there is only one bug for each ebuild I think it is fine :done +Jan 07 21:14:43 CHTEKK so if a user searches, he will find it and see "the ebuild is availabe in the overlay at http://blabla, cu!" +Jan 07 21:14:46 CHTEKK and will go there +Jan 07 21:15:01 CHTEKK wrobel, yeah sure, that ok +Jan 07 21:15:26 CHTEKK my whole discussion was concering bugs that come _later_, once an ebuild is in the overlay +Jan 07 21:15:39 CHTEKK those imo should be handled only in the overlay, if the package in question exists only there +Jan 07 21:15:53 wrobel right. the problem with trac is that you cannot easily subscribe to single ebuilds :done +Jan 07 21:16:13 Stuart would a trac upgrade help? :done +Jan 07 21:16:21 Stuart or can we extend trac to add that feature? :done +Jan 07 21:16:22 wrobel I dont know :) :done +Jan 07 21:16:36 rl03 we should investigate +Jan 07 21:17:05 Stuart wrobel is our python expert :) +Jan 07 21:17:35 wrobel I just had the problem that one user asked how he could follow changes on the ebuild now (ok still simple, he could read the RSS fead or the timeline) but I also did not know how to best contact the original author of an ebuild and notify him of changes I made to his ebuild. +Jan 07 21:17:37 CHTEKK what do you mean by "subscribe to single ebuilds" ? +Jan 07 21:17:40 wrobel :) +Jan 07 21:17:57 CHTEKK well bugzilla also does not track changes you do to an ebuild +Jan 07 21:18:10 CHTEKK you need to open a bug and update it each time there too +Jan 07 21:18:28 wrobel well you upload a modified ebuild there, so that's similar to tracking "changes" :done +Jan 07 21:19:38 Stuart I think we're off point now +Jan 07 21:19:55 Stuart back to trac vs bugzilla :) +Jan 07 21:20:28 CHTEKK k +Jan 07 21:20:30 wrobel ok, I'll look more in detail at trac and see if there will be an option to create tracker bugs for the single ebuilds, so that people can add there mailing address to them :done +Jan 07 21:20:48 CHTEKK k good for me +Jan 07 21:21:00 rl03 ok +Jan 07 21:21:03 Stuart I think we need more discussion before we can make any decisions. let's take this to email, and if necessary we'll look at it again next meeting, ok? +Jan 07 21:21:15 rl03 ok +Jan 07 21:21:18 wrobel ok, fine with me :done +Jan 07 21:21:28 wrobel Is there a webapps-overlay mailing list? :) :done +Jan 07 21:21:39 CHTEKK web-apps@g.o +Jan 07 21:21:58 Stuart wrobel: want me to setup a -discuss mailing list? :) +Jan 07 21:22:04 CHTEKK only the members of the alias see the mails to it, meaning the herd-members, so it's like a restricted discussion ml +Jan 07 21:22:21 rl03 wrobel: which you shuold add yourself to btw +Jan 07 21:22:27 Stuart we could start using gentoo-web-user@g.o :done +Jan 07 21:22:30 wrobel rl03: right :) +Jan 07 21:22:43 CHTEKK edit /var/spool/alias/misc/web-apps iirc +Jan 07 21:22:52 rl03 on toucan +Jan 07 21:22:52 CHTEKK Stuart, that's also a good idea :done +Jan 07 21:23:23 Stuart we agreed? we'll start using gentoo-web-user@g.o as our discussion list? :done +Jan 07 21:23:39 CHTEKK gentoo-web-users is indeed practically not used, reviving it would be good, so I agree : done +Jan 07 21:23:48 Stuart web-apps.g.o gets so much spam & bugspam that I fear I'll miss discussions on there :done +Jan 07 21:24:01 rl03 Stuart: i can stop fixing bugs if you want :) +Jan 07 21:24:12 Stuart rl03: that's not funny :P +Jan 07 21:24:20 CHTEKK ok that means my spamassassin rulez, since I get max 2 spam mails / day on web-apps@g.o :) +Jan 07 21:24:33 rl03 let's use -web-users +Jan 07 21:24:41 wrobel CHTEKK, rl03: thanks, added myself +Jan 07 21:24:50 Stuart ok. agreed. next item is status of virtual/httpd +Jan 07 21:25:12 rl03 ok ... +Jan 07 21:25:28 rl03 please all check out http://devwiki.gentoo.org/tiki-index.php?page=virtual%2Fhttpd :) +Jan 07 21:25:42 rl03 we _need_ virtual/httpd ... +Jan 07 21:25:58 rl03 there are tons of bugs about "hey, this works with lighttpd and you depend on apache" ... +Jan 07 21:26:10 rl03 so i propose creating those 3 ... +Jan 07 21:26:30 rl03 i've gone through all our httpds and created that matrix, whcih could be a little off, but at least a start ... +Jan 07 21:26:50 CHTEKK agreed, those three seem good and should satisfy the needs of those ebuilds that can work with more than one webserver +Jan 07 21:26:57 Stuart looks good to me +Jan 07 21:27:00 rl03 then if a web-app is a simple php thing, you can depend on cgi or fcgi +Jan 07 21:27:16 rl03 so we need to coordinate with the apache and www-servers herds +Jan 07 21:27:31 Stuart I will take this one +Jan 07 21:27:42 rl03 Stuart: you're in www-servers, right? +Jan 07 21:27:49 Stuart rl03: yes, although I never do anything +Jan 07 21:27:57 rl03 that's about to change +Jan 07 21:28:00 Stuart lol +Jan 07 21:28:03 wrobel heh +Jan 07 21:28:05 Stuart fair enough :) +Jan 07 21:28:07 CHTEKK :) +Jan 07 21:28:10 rl03 step 2 is... +Jan 07 21:28:26 rl03 fix w-c to recognize ALL those webservers :| +Jan 07 21:28:38 rl03 not sure what that'll involve, but it needs to happen +Jan 07 21:28:43 rl03 and step 3 is to fix all ebuilds +Jan 07 21:28:55 rl03 we have our work cut out for us, but that's going to be HUGE +Jan 07 21:29:06 rl03 talk about something no other distro does +Jan 07 21:29:34 Stuart it might be that some of those servers need to change to fit our approach +Jan 07 21:29:39 rl03 yes +Jan 07 21:29:39 CHTEKK all of those? hmmm +Jan 07 21:29:41 wrobel w-c should not be too much of a problem there. It's basically only the users/groups that need to be added +Jan 07 21:29:49 rl03 CHTEKK: not all, but most +Jan 07 21:30:01 rl03 Stuart: perhaps for a lot of them we can add a generic www-server user +Jan 07 21:30:02 Stuart wrobel: some of these servers may not support our standard /var/www/localhost layout yet +Jan 07 21:30:03 CHTEKK I'm pretty sure some of those only support HTML or some CGI script, so for those w-c is pretty useless +Jan 07 21:30:31 Stuart rl03: there's a lot of resistance to that, although personally I think they should all be installed as a common 'www' user +Jan 07 21:30:34 rl03 CHTEKK: a lot of them can do vhost support on the cheap +Jan 07 21:30:42 CHTEKK hmmm I'm specifically thinking of PHP here ... +Jan 07 21:30:52 rl03 Stuart: noted. not sure what we'll do, but we should revive that discussion +Jan 07 21:30:55 Stuart I will take ownership of this whole problem +Jan 07 21:31:03 rl03 CHTEKK: they can run PHP, very slowly :) +Jan 07 21:31:07 CHTEKK the ones that support passing stuff to cgi/fcgi can support PHP; and apache can (mod_php) +Jan 07 21:31:28 rl03 CHTEKK: yes, which means for a lot of the web-apps you don't need apache +Jan 07 21:31:34 rl03 Stuart: great +Jan 07 21:32:04 CHTEKK yeah, but also only a minimal subset of that page works correctly with PHP, apache, lighttpd, thttpd iirc +Jan 07 21:32:15 Stuart next item? +Jan 07 21:32:26 rl03 CHTEKK: sure +Jan 07 21:32:28 CHTEKK for others it's mostly a PITA to setup, but that's not our problem, more the server owners, so ok, agreed :) +Jan 07 21:32:48 rl03 CHTEKK: noone sane will run php on an httpd that is a kernel module :) +Jan 07 21:32:50 rl03 but you could +Jan 07 21:33:12 rl03 Stuart: sure +Jan 07 21:33:26 wrobel project page? +Jan 07 21:33:30 Stuart project page. +Jan 07 21:33:36 Stuart anyone want to chip in here? +Jan 07 21:34:07 rl03 i could, if you outline what needs to be done +Jan 07 21:34:08 wrobel what do we need on it? can do it +Jan 07 21:34:17 wrobel heh +Jan 07 21:34:24 Stuart let's find an existing page to model it on +Jan 07 21:34:34 Stuart iirc, project pages use different guidexml to normal docs +Jan 07 21:35:02 Stuart http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/gdp/ +Jan 07 21:35:09 Stuart how about we steal that one? :) +Jan 07 21:35:36 rl03 Stuart: sure :) +Jan 07 21:35:39 CHTEKK they all look the same anyway thanks to XSL magic :) +Jan 07 21:35:49 wrobel looks good +Jan 07 21:35:55 Stuart CHTEKK: that isn't a good thing :) +Jan 07 21:36:03 wrobel rl03: let me take it. ;) +Jan 07 21:36:11 Stuart wrobel: make a draft, post it in your dev space, and we'll provide feedback from there? +Jan 07 21:36:20 CHTEKK well since it's "official" gentoo project page, it has a unified design +Jan 07 21:36:21 wrobel ok +Jan 07 21:36:24 rl03 wrobel: go for it :) +Jan 07 21:36:31 rl03 i'm not done with bugzilla yet :) +Jan 07 21:36:37 Stuart CHTEKK: unified limitations you mean :) +Jan 07 21:36:48 wrobel rl03: will you ever be ? ;) +Jan 07 21:36:54 rl03 wrobel: making progress +Jan 07 21:36:54 CHTEKK Stuart, possibily, I've never worked with guideXML and the xml behind the gentoo sites +Jan 07 21:37:05 rl03 wrobel: but that's the point. i'm freeing up you guys :) +Jan 07 21:37:13 Stuart hehe +Jan 07 21:37:15 Stuart next item? +Jan 07 21:37:18 wrobel absolutely +Jan 07 21:37:31 rl03 ok +Jan 07 21:37:40 Stuart next item is vision and role of w-c +Jan 07 21:37:59 rl03 so i'm not sure if this is the best time/place to discuss this +Jan 07 21:38:11 wrobel maybe the ml is better +Jan 07 21:38:17 Stuart can we take this one to the m/l? +Jan 07 21:38:21 rl03 ok +Jan 07 21:38:27 Stuart vhost-tools-dev@lists.vhost-tools.org? +Jan 07 21:38:37 rl03 aye +Jan 07 21:38:46 Stuart ok +Jan 07 21:38:59 rl03 got one more for AOB +Jan 07 21:39:02 Stuart any other business? say yes if you have anything +Jan 07 21:39:05 Stuart yes +Jan 07 21:39:21 CHTEKK yes +Jan 07 21:39:29 rl03 yes +Jan 07 21:40:05 Stuart CHTEKK first plz +Jan 07 21:40:20 * Deedubb (n=Deedubb@S010600055d22c57f.vf.shawcable.net) has joined #gentoo-web +Jan 07 21:40:54 CHTEKK ok: bot in this channel, atm we lack any jeeves or genbot, I propose to contact karpaski or whoever owns jeeves and get him added here, with that great feature that notifies the channel of bugs assigned to web-apps@g.o +Jan 07 21:41:01 rl03 ++ +Jan 07 21:41:06 rl03 ++++ even +Jan 07 21:41:32 Stuart ++ +Jan 07 21:41:35 wrobel ++ +Jan 07 21:41:41 rl03 i'll do it +Jan 07 21:42:04 CHTEKK ok +Jan 07 21:42:06 Stuart ok +Jan 07 21:42:16 CHTEKK next then :) +Jan 07 21:43:01 Stuart rl03? +Jan 07 21:43:08 rl03 we should reach out to all herds we routinely work with, much like we did with upstream +Jan 07 21:43:23 rl03 off the top of my head, apache, perl, python, php :) +Jan 07 21:43:48 CHTEKK well PHP is no problem +Jan 07 21:43:51 Stuart good idea +Jan 07 21:43:57 CHTEKK it pretty much is the same as web-apps :) +Jan 07 21:44:05 rl03 i've got a bit of bad blood with mcummings :| +Jan 07 21:44:08 Deedubb wow, a meeting eh +Jan 07 21:44:09 rl03 i should mend that +Jan 07 21:44:19 rl03 Deedubb: see /topic +Jan 07 21:44:26 Stuart java is our big blindspot I believe +Jan 07 21:44:30 rl03 Stuart: yes +Jan 07 21:44:31 Deedubb indeed, I thought it would be a 5 minute long job +Jan 07 21:44:34 rl03 very true +Jan 07 21:45:10 rl03 so i'll do that then? or stu? +Jan 07 21:45:16 Stuart rl03: can you start it? +Jan 07 21:45:18 rl03 ok +Jan 07 21:45:20 Stuart I will help +Jan 07 21:45:34 rl03 ok +Jan 07 21:45:57 Stuart my item? +Jan 07 21:46:00 rl03 yes +Jan 07 21:46:08 Stuart agenda items is my item +Jan 07 21:46:30 Stuart can I suggest some rules for evaluating whether someting should be on the agenda or not? +Jan 07 21:46:43 rl03 sure +Jan 07 21:46:52 Stuart ta +Jan 07 21:47:11 rl03 (i know i threw out a bunch of stuff, but wanted to run through everything at the first meeting :) ) +Jan 07 21:47:19 Stuart that's not a problem +Jan 07 21:47:23 Stuart ... +Jan 07 21:47:39 Stuart I suggest that agenda items have to satisfy one or more of these tests +Jan 07 21:47:47 Stuart a) it's something that needs a formal vote +Jan 07 21:48:15 Stuart b) it's a serious problem where we need extraordinary effort to tackle it +Jan 07 21:48:44 Stuart c) it's a dispute that needs some air +Jan 07 21:49:05 Stuart d) it's something that we want to formally congratulate someone on what they've done +Jan 07 21:49:48 Stuart I suggest that status reports belong in emails / wiki, and only points about them belong in this meeting if they meet one or more of the above tests +Jan 07 21:50:00 Stuart :done +Jan 07 21:50:20 rl03 how about things that should be brought to everoyne's attention? ML? +Jan 07 21:50:31 Stuart good point +Jan 07 21:50:39 Stuart that could be e) +Jan 07 21:50:52 rl03 fine with me +Jan 07 21:50:59 wrobel ok for me too +Jan 07 21:51:03 rl03 that way we won't have 2-hr meetings :) +Jan 07 21:51:08 Stuart exactly :) +Jan 07 21:51:12 wrobel ;) +Jan 07 21:51:33 Stuart I suggest they are guidelines, not hard and fast rules +Jan 07 21:51:49 Stuart my motivation is to avoid 2 hr meetings, but sometimes a 2 hr meeting is the right thing to do +Jan 07 21:52:22 rl03 ok +Jan 07 21:52:53 Stuart ok, next item is time of next meeting +Jan 07 21:53:11 Stuart first monday of every month, 19:00 UTC ok? +Jan 07 21:53:19 rl03 no +Jan 07 21:53:22 rl03 i'm at work +Jan 07 21:53:24 rl03 oh wait :\ +Jan 07 21:53:26 Stuart sorry, saturday +Jan 07 21:53:45 rl03 yeah +Jan 07 21:53:52 wrobel hm, saturday at 8 is in general not a really good time. :( +Jan 07 21:54:05 wrobel depends on the length :) +Jan 07 21:54:20 wrobel rather somewhat earlier +Jan 07 21:55:07 Stuart how about sundays? +Jan 07 21:55:16 rl03 should work for me +Jan 07 21:55:19 wrobel sunday is good +Jan 07 21:55:28 Stuart what time on a sunday? +Jan 07 21:55:41 wrobel 18:00 UTC? +Jan 07 21:55:58 Stuart that works for me +Jan 07 21:56:02 rl03 ok +Jan 07 21:56:31 rl03 we're getting jeeves here +Jan 07 21:56:38 wrobel great +Jan 07 21:56:40 Stuart ok +Jan 07 21:56:43 Stuart n1 +Jan 07 21:56:48 * jeeves (n=jeeves@gentoo/developer/jeeves) has joined #gentoo-web +Jan 07 21:57:00 rl03 jeeves: welcome +Jan 07 21:57:19 Stuart next meeting: sunday 5th feb, 18:00 UTC, in here +Jan 07 21:57:24 rl03 ok +Jan 07 21:57:25 Stuart I'll try to remember next time :) +Jan 07 21:57:28 wrobel fine +Jan 07 21:57:28 CHTEKK ok, sunday good for me too +Jan 07 21:57:40 CHTEKK lo jeeves :) +Jan 07 21:57:52 CHTEKK bug 12345 +Jan 07 21:57:52 jeeves CHTEKK: http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12345 min, P4, x86, elessar@nmt.edu->lostlogic@gentoo.org, RESOLVED, FIXED, Unmerging kernel sources +Jan 07 21:57:57 CHTEKK yay! :) +Jan 07 21:57:59 Stuart lol +Jan 07 21:58:02 rl03 FATAL1TY! +Jan 07 21:58:27 Stuart I declare our first meeting over. thanks everyone for making this very easy +Jan 07 21:58:30 rl03 thanks +Jan 07 21:58:33 Stuart CHTEKK: mail me the IRC log plz? +Jan 07 21:58:36 CHTEKK thanks :) +Jan 07 21:58:36 wrobel thanks +Jan 07 21:58:44 CHTEKK Stuart, sure, just a moment +Jan 07 21:58:50 Stuart I will write up minutes, and organise agenda for next meeting. page is already on the wiki :) |